Book of Mormonisms

Did they really say THAT?

LDS Prophets Disagree With Proposition 8

Posted by skiutah on Friday, January 23, 2009

In the past, Mormons have felt persecuted when laws were passed that prohibited them from practicing polygamy (as God commanded them to):

The Lord’s Law of Ten Virgins Per Man: “And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.” God, D&C 132:61-62

(btw, notice that the Lord doesn’t specify “female” virgins, interestingly the Lord just says “ten virgins” without regard to gender, so technically an LDS man can have something like three male wives and seven female wives, the total just has to add up to ten to be in compliance with The Lord’s Law of Ten Virgins Per Man.)

It’s okay to break laws: “I was asked, “Do you believe in obeying the laws of the United States?” “Yes I do, in all except one”-in fact I had not broken that. “What law is that?” “The law in relation to polygamy.”” John Taylor, JD 20:318

Monogamy laws cause prostitution: “The founders of that ancient empire were robbers and women stealers, and made laws favoring monogamy in consequence of the scarcity of women among them, and hence this monogamic system which now prevails throughout all Christendom, and which has been so fruitful a source of prostitution and whoredom throughout all the Christian monogamic cities.” Brigham Young, JD 11:128

Anti-polygamy laws bad: “They say, virtually, “We will pass a law so strict, that if these females undertake to marry a man who has another wife, both they and the men they marry shall be subject to a term of imprisonment in the penitentiary.” Indeed!” Orson Pratt, JD 13:183

Lord legalizes polygamy: “Does not this clearly prove that the Lord did not condemn polygamy, but that he considered it legal?” Orson Pratt, JD 6:352

Lord fights monogamy laws: “There are hundreds and thousands of [unmarried] females in this boasted land of liberty, through the narrow, contracted, bigoted State laws, preventing them from ever getting husbands. That is what the Lord is fighting against; we, also, are fighting against it, and for the re-establishment of the Bible religion and the celestial or patriarchal order of marriage.” Orson Pratt, JD 13:183

Monogamy laws cause STDs: “This law of monogamy, or the monogamic system laid the foundation for prostitution and the evils and diseases of the most revolting nature and character under which modern Christendom groans…” Orson Pratt, JD 13:195

Have sex with many women for the kids’ sake: “Talk about polygamy!… is far superior to monogamy for the raising of healthy, robust children!” Brigham Young, JD 13:317

Heavenly polygamy: “If a husband and wife have been sealed and the wife dies, the man may have another woman sealed to him is she is not already sealed.” LDS Church Handbook of Instructions

Future of LDS polygamy: “…plural marriage was openly taught and practiced until the year 1890… Obviously the holy practice will commence again after the Second Coming of the Son of Man and the ushering in of the millennium.” Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 578

Conclusions: It’s ironic that the LDS church — with its long history of dislike of the government imposing laws against the Mormon definition of marriage — is now for laws (California, Proposition 8 ) which enforces a definition of matrimony on other groups.

Note to LDS missionaries: If teaching this material to new converts, have a camera ready to snap a picture of the spirit inspired awestruck looks on a fresh convert’s face when first hearing these doctrines. Consult with your local Bishop on the appropriate timeframes for introducing these concepts, which varies by culture and country.

For example, if you are an LDS missionary in Pakistan (where polygamy is legal) you may get a more inspired reaction: “bahut patni bahut achchi hain! hain ji!”

(But perhaps not introduce The Lord’s Law of Ten Virgins Per Man in respect to gender, your call, do what the spirit tells you to do, obviously, it’s not a bad fate to be a martyr. If you state “I can be married to ten male virgins in Pakistan”… well, think about it, very briefly…)

Footnote: My spouse just informed me that if the Mormon church is true, then they shouldn’t be sensitive to any type of criticism, rather they should be saying “bring it on, complete open transparency, mission accomplished, we’re God’s singular true church, all other churches are wrong, completely self-evident from their prophets’ teachings, right?”

Note: See Coventryrm’s note on the relationship between LDS and FLDS polygamy here:
Joseph Smith Created FLDS Polygamy Mess

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8 Responses to “LDS Prophets Disagree With Proposition 8”

  1. […] Do Mormons still believe in puerile marriage? A: It’s “plural”, not “puerile”. Read D&C 132, for the revelation to Joseph Smith on […]

  2. sarah said

    sorry you feel that way, and the deep hate you have for my religion

  3. skiutah said

    Why do so many Mormons equate criticism with hatred?

    One response might be that the items posted here are all derogatory lies. All of the quotes here are from Mormon leaders referenced in LDS authorized publications.

    Hatred? no. humorous quotes from LDS leaders, yes…

  4. John said

    This is dumb…

    “btw, notice that the Lord doesn’t specify “female” virgins,”

    Look up what the word “VIRGIN” meant in biblical times.

    Do you not see a problem with this quoting??

    “Talk about polygamy!… is far superior to monogamy for the raising of healthy, robust children!”

    I’ll give you a hint. The 3 dots ruin the whole meaning. For example I could write:

    “I am… Mormon. I belong… to the LDS Church. I actually…believe the LDS Church is true.” (Coventryrm 2009)

    See a problem???

    Next, your sourcing for almost every one of the “quotes” is not endorsed by the LDS church. “Mormon Doctrine” is not Mormon doctrine.

    bring it on.

    • coventryrm said

      John I find your points here rather intriguing:

      “Look up what the word “VIRGIN” meant in biblical times. Do you not see a problem with this quoting??”

      The quote is from the D&C which was published in the 1800s and contain dictations from Joseph Smith, not quite Biblical Times. I do have to wonder why an active member of the LDS faith would have in their mind however that the D&C = “Biblical Times” I came up with a few possibilities, you have come so accustomed to just accepting LDS scripture as such that do not differentiate or consider the diversity from which each one originated or perhaps subconsciously you do accept that JS was mimicking the Bible rather than actually receiving new revelation in the 19 century or just assumed that since JS was using 17 century style English which is the same as the Bible you read that somehow makes it “Biblical Times” which by the way was not written in 17th century English. I also think it was pretty obvious SkiUtah was being satirical with this post anyway.

      “Talk about polygamy!… is far superior to monogamy for the raising of healthy, robust children!” I’ll give you a hint. The 3 dots ruin the whole meaning.”

      Fair enough here is the paragraph in its entirety:

      “Talk about polygamy! There is no true philosopher on the face of the earth but what will admit that such a system, properly carried out according to the order of heaven, is far superior to monogamy for the raising of healthy, robust children! A person possessing a moderate knowledge of physiology, or who has paid attention to his own nature and the nature of the gentler sex, can readily understand this.”
      I am not necessarily seeing where the point BY was making changes or that there was deception in omitting some of the fluff, but sense you have accused us of just that I would be curious for you to show which paragraph or specific quote of mine you were able to find the below example that you give and post it in entirety so we can compare each of our tactics.

      “I am… Mormon. I belong… to the LDS Church. I actually…believe the LDS Church is true.” (Coventryrm 2009)”

      Finally you take issue with our claims regarding our sources:

      Next, your sourcing for almost every one of the “quotes” is not endorsed by the LDS church. “Mormon Doctrine” is not Mormon doctrine

      .
      Endorsed by the church is not the same as claiming it to be Doctrine, we have been down this road enough to know that just about anything can denied as being Doctrine by the current leadership of the church. I also find it interesting that you were actually naïve enough to choose this specific quote and publication to challenge. Yes there has been controversy concerning the original publication of this book, the quote however comes from the second edition published by Bookcraft and approved of by the President of the Church at the time. The leadership of the church as allowed it to continue to be published with revisions as late as 1978 to accommodate the priesthood ban. I personally use a search program purchased through Deseret Books called “LDS Library 2006” I feel most confident that when I quote from this source I am in very ethical territory to label it a reliable LDS source.

      I would also like to address not only the source material but the content. Are you challenging the actual statement?

      “…plural marriage was openly taught and practiced until the year 1890… Obviously the holy practice will commence again after the Second Coming of the Son of Man and the ushering in of the millennium.”

      I am not so sure you can dismiss this as non-doctrinal. The church still hold plural marriage as a concept that will be practiced in the Celestial kingdom don’t they? I know that my father was just recently sealed in the temple to my stepmother; he is also still sealed to my mother who passed away. However it is Church policy that if my Father would have preceded my Mother in death she would not be able to be sealed to another in this life. Sounds like the above statement that is still found in the revised edition of Mormon Doctrine is actually just that – Doctrine.

    • skiutah said

      In regards to the Journal of Discourses, this collection of LDS leaders’ sermons was published with the endorsement of the LDS church First Presidency in 1854. Several subsequent LDS prophets and seers have stated that the Journal of Discourses is inspired revelation:

      Joseph F. Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 18, preface, “Those who read the utterances of the servants of God, contained in this book, under the same influence by which the speakers were inspired, cannot fail to receive profit from the perusal.”

      George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 345 “Read the discourses of the first Presidency and the Twelve, and you will see that they are filled with revelation, with light, with knowledge, with wisdom, and with good counsel unto this people.”

      Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. iii “We are privileged to present to the Saints and the world, the Third Volume of the Journal of Discourses, containing the principles of the Gospel of salvation delivered to this generation through the Apostles and Prophets of the Most High, by the power of the Holy Ghost.”

      You can investigate all of these humorous quotes from Mormon prophets contained in the Journal of Discourses online here: LDS Journal of Discourses

      However, the current LDS leadership states that the Journal of Discourses is not LDS canon. Curiously, modern LDS apostles and prophets still quote from the Journal of Discourses in contemporary books and talks.

      Significant volumes of previously published Mormon church approved material has been discarded as the uninspired beliefs of misguided men. What percentage of neo-LDS publications will be dismissed in future years as the mistaken viewpoints of erroneous men?

  5. Wes said

    If you were to read Declaration 1 at the end of Doctrine and Covenants perhaps you would more fully understand the issue of polygamy. I can understand that there have been errors made before by the church leaders but they never did claim to be perfect and if you say anything on that then you are decieving no one. If you want a good scripture on God’s stand on homosexuality just read in the book of Genesis the story of Lot. Of course even though it does say that God finds it to be an abomination that would not likely stop you from twisting the words of the past prophets as you have the present ones.

    Just remember that which Brigham Young said:

    “Every time you kick Mormonism you kick it upstairs; you never kick it downstairs. The Lord Almighty so orders it.”

    And before I forget:
    BRING IT ON! I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is THE true church of God the Father and is lead by a prophet that truly does speak with God; NO MAN or devilish spirit may take this knowledge from me.

    • coventryrm said

      Wes

      I feel for you and understand where you are coming from…. there was a time in my life that I too claimed and challenged as you do at the end of your post… there is still hope for you if you just allow your reasonable mind to overcome your unfounded emotional fears.

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