Book of Mormonisms

Did they really say THAT?

Friday’s Warrior

Posted by skiutah on Thursday, May 15, 2008

I can remember in the late 70s, I had an LDS seminary teacher who told me “the world will end in less than 15 years, you are the chosen generation to do battle with Satan before Christ comes, you have been saved for the very last days, you must have done something extra special in the pre-existence to be born into a white LDS family in Utah. You are a Saturday’s Warrior!”

At the time, I asked my grandmother what she thought about the above comments by my seminary teacher, she said “don’t worry about the apocalyptic rhetoric, I was told the same thing when I was a young girl.”

When my grandmother passed away many years ago, we had to call in a biological hazmat team to extricate the 2 year supply of food (that was about 30 years old) from her basement.

In retrospect, I must have been an average Joe in the pre-existence. I don’t keep a 2 year supply of canned food in my cellar. And I won’t moving back to Missouri with the rest of the doomsday cult.

I realize now that nobody in my generation was a “Saturday’s Warrior”, at best, I’d be a “Friday’s Warrior”. Somehow the soundtrack doesn’t sound the same though… “these are the few, the warriors saved for Friday, to come, the last day of the world, these are they, on Friday…”

(and my grandmother must have been a Thursday’s Warrior)

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47 Responses to “Friday’s Warrior”

  1. myreligioniskindness said

    I have realized in the last few years how mostly useless a food storage is…….other than unemployment. Most of the ‘peril’ that is prophesied to come to the earth as far as natural disasters would be wiped out in the process. I think the 72 hr. kit is a good idea, but the rest of the emergency preparedness spoken of is fear mongering.

    Anyone seen the movie

    http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com

    It’s worth your time. Not sure what I would have done with the information had it been presented to me while in the church……..it can be watched for free online.

  2. myreligioniskindness said

    The church does a lot of fear mongering followed by assuring the members they are in the ‘right place’ to be protected. I feel most of the natural disasters would make a 2 year supply worthless, maybe only the 72 hr. kit is useful……..unemployment would be the only time the food storage is helpful. Other than that….silly. Not gonna do any good in flood or fire or earthquake,etc.

  3. ditchu said

    It saddens me that people would declair to a group of people that they will see the “Last Battle.” I do think the “Last days” are upon us, but I consider that these “Last days” could take a few milinea to complete, so you probably wont be hearing me rounding up God’s Warriors to face down Satan and his Followers. But then again if i do need to, I guess i will… I hope to have enough time to do all the normal things in life though.

    Who really knows what day it is in this respect? It could still be Tuesday for all I know.

  4. ditchu said

    By the way, the full supply (if not tanted or damaged) is that large alotment not only to help out in finantial crisis but If it survived a natural disaster, It is there to support not only the family but neigbors and others thar stand in need.

  5. Ditchu

    you said

    “I do think the “Last days” are upon us, but I consider that these “Last days” could take a few milinea to complete”

    The Jehovahs Witnesses will disagree with you , we are in the final few days according to them .Why else would a religious group go door knocking if they didn’t ‘know’ this for sure ?

    When I ask where they get their info from .They tell me it comes direct from Jehovah through his visible organisation !

  6. ditchu said

    Joe,
    I do not care what the Joheva Witness think. I do not know what their beleifs are and I do not consider my self part of that church.

    Again, Though I do not know the harm they have caused you, I feel sorrow for it. I pray and hope you find confort and healing.

    Peace in the Lord Jesus Christ,
    -D

  7. deaconj123 said

    You can only cry wolf so many times, the Mormon church has been teaching that the “last days” are just around the corner for 170+ years. It’s like being a Seattle Seahawks fan, maybe we’ll win the SB next year.

    Perhaps the LDS church should change its name to the “the Church of JC of Prior Day Saints”.

  8. ditchu said

    d-
    Like I stated last days can take some time. In fact if you read you Bible closely you will find that Jesus has mentioned that the Last days are here.

    And Joe thinks I’m Jehova Witness, what’s up with that?

    On the other note: the Seahawks might win, maybe it will be this year.

  9. deacon123
    I think you meant the name should be
    “The Church Of Joseph Smith of non latter day Gullibles”

    Ditchu – Why are you ignorant as to the faith of JW’s ? Are you closed minded. They have the Holy Ghost with them.How else would they be able to do a lifetimes door to door pioneer work ?

    They arose at a similar time to your ‘organisation’ as did many others….

  10. skiutah said

    >>“The Church Of Joseph Smith of non latter day Gullibles”.

    lol.

    Almost as funny, Joseph Smith prophesied that Christ would come around 1890.

    “At the April conference, 1840, the Prophet Joseph, while speaking of some of the elders on this matter said … the Lord would not come in ten years; no, nor in twenty years; no, nor in thirty years; no, nor in forty years, and it will be almost fifty years before the Lord will come.”

    Source: Luman Shurtliff, Autobiography, BYU Special Collections, Writings of Early Latter-day Saints, p.44

  11. ditchu said

    Joe,
    unlike you I do not go around and learn the negative things of every religion out there. In fact I have plenty of good things to learn to keep me entertained that I don’t need to attack other’s faith.

  12. coventryrm said

    Ditchu

    I think the point is more a question of have you put the same amount of Faith, prayer or commitment into seeking the truthfulness of any other religion or specifically the JWs.

    LDS consistently claim or argue that they KNOW their church is true because they have prayed and excercised faith, what you can actually KNOW or testify to is that this method of truth seeking will confirm a testimony of what you want to be true.

  13. myreligioniskindness said

    Have you seen the Zeitgeist movie? It’s worth a view……not sure what I would have done with the info. when I had been practicing……curious about everyone’s thoughts on it, whether anyone has taken the time to research the information presented as to the accuracy (I’m speaking of the first section of the movie specifically. You can watch it online for free.

  14. ditchu said

    c-
    What you think you know about me is obviously in error. For you information I have invested considerable time looking into many “Churches” and religious organizations. I have how ever left the “JW’s” alone because from what my best friend growing up, who was JW, explained to me did not appeal to my view of religion at the time, nor has it since then. It would take me considerable more time to effectively look into all religious organizations sufficiently to say I had investigated them, practically the rest of my natural life. What Churches have you investigated sufficiently to pass judgment?

    My answers about the JW church have never wavered from the solid statement that I do not know enough about that Faith to speak on it, all I would be doing is spreading rumor – not fact. I have not wished to get this personal in the past but you keep pushing this issue and you will find out that I have extensive experience in several varied religious Groups, including many “Christian churches” and some non-Christian Faiths. My life has been a spiritual battleground from childhood and looking back I can see that God has always helped me find the truth in many aspects of spirituality. I probably have a different and more extensive understanding of the religious experience of man than most “Mormons” you will converse with. I say this without boast because I do understand my limitations and Know that many of my Brothers and Sisters in Christ have more knowledge, and understanding of many aspects of church life. From the scriptures to how church leadership functions to the meta-physics of different Faith systems.
    You think that because I am LDS I know nothing of other churches. You think that because I am LDS I have subjugated my will and thinking over to the church.
    You are wrong on both accounts, and maybe much more. Stop with you ill assumptions. When I say I do not know enough about a certain subject that is exactly what I mean. I am not the kind of person to pass judgment on a Faith that I have not sufficiently investigated to know my data is variable.

    Thank you, and again I have never been part of the JW’s.
    -D

  15. coventryrm said

    I have based my observations on the comments you have made here and the way in which you discuss and present yourself solely on this blog.

  16. coventryrm said

    Kindness

    I started watching Zeitgeist, I was not familiar with this particular presentation but it seems to be very consistent with many other things I have read and information I am familiar with. There seems to be a large amount of evidence and information that when put all together, I think, it becomes very apparent where the Judeo/Christian myths originated from. The creation myth in Genesis seem to be stolen from Babylonian, Greek and Egyptian myths and when viewed in that light the inconsistencies found in the creation myths in Genesis make perfect sense if you think about how it would look if you had “Cut and Pasted” it from these other myths.

    As far as the Savior/Christ myth when once realizes that it was just one of many myths of the same sort at the time as Zeitgeist illustrates it becomes obvious that Christianities success is due to the fact that Constantine made it the State religion. The rest is History!

  17. ditchu said

    c-
    Your reply, “I have based my observations on the comments you have made here and the way in which you discuss and present yourself solely on this blog.”
    Is accurate, however you have taken a relatively shore dialogue and surmised much more from it. You have made gross assumptions about me and I suppose others. This led to your question of my exploration of Faith outside what you thought was my sheltered experience in a Church you no longer adhere to. You were wrong. My last response was to notify you that you have made a gross error in your assumptions about people. I suggest that you learn how to employ more tact to finding out what the experiences of others are before making these assumptions.
    Thank you,
    -D

  18. ditchu said

    c-
    Just to let you know that I do like the new topic and the point of view people are using to discuss the religous mythos and the relationship or simmularities cross culturally. I have research it a little in me Folklore studies and found it intreguing that the Jewish based faiths would have simmular myths (sacred naritive) as other cultures through out the world and across time. Maybe there is something to all these stories we humans are keeping alive?

  19. coventryrm said

    Ditchu

    I still stand my summation and it wasn’t a judgment it is just a reality as you say

    “It would take me considerable more time to effectively look into all religious organizations sufficiently to say I had investigated them, practically the rest of my natural life”

    My point being to Claim that you KNOW your particular religion is “THE ONE TRUE RELIGION” because of you how you have personally interpreted your spiritual/supernatural or unexplained experiences still only testifies for sake of argument that whatever religion you decided to fully immerse yourself in will most likely be the one that these experiences will confirm as being the true one. So the only thing being confirmed is what you want to believe and has nothing whatsoever to do with TRUTH.

    You ask

    “What Churches have you investigated sufficiently to pass judgment?”

    My method for finding truth doesn’t require me to look into all Churches in detail. Using the Carl Sagan method of seeking truth you can rule out just about every current God myth. So therefore there is no point in looking at every subset of believes that are already founded on a disprovable myth.

    My assumption was based on a basic fact – as you even admitted no one has the time in a single life time to thoroughly investigate ALL the religions so I guess I was correct in my statement after all.

    What about your assumptions. You have consistently made the assumption that we do not accept or understand or able to reconcile doctrine and beliefs because we are spiritually bankrupt and you regularly take the position of spiritual superiority. What is that based on, simply that we don’t accept what you believe, that we actually are willing to base our opinions on actual empirical evidence and question and realize that we are creatures of emotions and that emotions can be deceiving and when our feelings and emotions run contrary to what we know intellectually to be true then we should and owe it to ourselves and others to question and work through those emotions and feelings. Does this process make me any less spiritual or less centered on the contrary it increases and strengthens everything about me – Intellectually – Emotionally and Spiritually. To try and justify and validate an emotion or feeling that is based on something so clearly flawed does the opposite. You might want to read my post “Maturity and Mormonism”

  20. myreligioniskindness said

    “Truth” has been scientifically shown to be a mostly subjective, but also conditioned experience. Quantum physics has shown that whatever you expect to see…..you will see. Be that physical, spiritual or even emotional experience. Whatever you tell yourself is ‘true’, your subconscious will draw your to you people, experiences, etc. To prove the relevance/truth of that subject. Try it, D. Pick a new belief about God…or anything else in life, and see what happens. The B of M tells you that if something is a good seed and you plant it, it will grow, and if it is not a good seed, it will not, so you have nothing to worry about, right?

  21. myreligioniskindness said

    A very powerful manifestation of this in the church is that the doctrine teaches you that if you ‘sin’ or are ‘unworthy’ (I dislike that word almost more than any other one) that the spirit will leave you. So, a member makes a choice he has been told is ‘a sin’, and there fore he experiences that the Spirit has left him and he tells himself, “Yep, it’s true, I have sinned”. But what if you chose to believe that “God” is always with you, available to help and lived as if that was true? Another way to test it?

  22. ditchu said

    Have I ever made the claim that my relifion or Faith for that matter is the Only true one?
    Again with the generalized assumptions.

  23. coventryrm said

    D

    Guilty by assocation. It would the same as someone who is a member of the KKK and defends it as an organization to say I would be wrong to assume they were a racist.

  24. ditchu said

    Ohh,
    You mean that thing that lots of people say about their church, “I belong to the one true church!” well I shall have you know that I do belong to the true church as I know it: Christianity. But I do argue that this is not the same as the statment you think I agree to. Too often people are so close-minded that they forget that others see themselves as being the best, when others see themselves as the best. how are we to reconcile these differing views? I tend to qualify these blanket statments that you hear from many groups.

    By the way your are mistaken in the tense of your argument: “Guilty by assocation. It would the same as someone who is a member of the KKK and defends it as an organization to say I would be wrong to assume they were a racist.”

    I am not defending the group that you seem to view my statments through. No, I have heard others make the statment but that does not mean you can assume that I have ever made it, nor does it suggest that I would defend the blanket statment when in question. It is not my statment and I have never made it. So, why would you approach me to defend it? You have no reason to put words in my mouth, so why do it? I don’t judge you by what other’s say on you blog. I don’t judge you by the friends you choose to have. So why judge me by what others associated to me may have said without first finding out if I agree with the statment and how I agree with it?
    -D

  25. coventryrm said

    Spin – spin – spin

    On May 19th Ditchu says – “Have I ever made the claim that my relifion or Faith for that matter is the Only true one?
    Again with the generalized assumptions.”

    On May 19th Ditchu says – “well I shall have you know that I do belong to the true church as I know it: Christianity”

    On may 5th Ditchu says – “I do know that the LDS church is the true church of Jesus Christ. I do know the book of Mormon is true”

    I am not sure what assumptions I have made.

  26. ditchu said

    I leave room for any religion to claim the truth. This matches with all of my statments that I belong to the true church and that I have knowledge of the truth and have seen it evident in the LDS Church, but I do not counter the claims of others unless I can back up my claims with fact. when I would make a counter argument about a religion that I have not studied sufficeintly, at best I would say, “it did not work out for me” or “in my opinion” or “the evidance that i have seen does not point me in that direction.” These statments are loose and depend on my experience. Any non-scathing argument should promote me to look further into the Faith and show me something that I most likely did not understand from before.
    -D 19 May 2008 a.d.

  27. myreligioniskindness said

    Then D,
    It would probably be the most diplomatic and open minded to always preface any statement of personal belief as in your examples with things like

    “I belong to one of a number of true churchs”, as opposed to “the true church”.

    Or always state in each statement “In my opinion” or “In my experience” or “in my way of seeing it”.

    To use ‘the’ proceeding ‘true church’ would strongly suggest a singular, as in only one truth.

    How about, “I belong to a church that for me is true”, or “my belief is that my church has truth in it”.

    If you want me to, I am willing to share how I was able to make peace with myself around how the church use to work for me very well and even be TRUE, then over time ceased to be THE true church. It was not a mental process, but a ‘supernatural’ teaching given in meditation.

    I am not saying that your church does not have any truth, just that it contains both truths and non-truths.

    In my experience, religion in general is a function of humans and the man named “Jesus” or “Yessuah” (although that is not the correct spelling) would find little if any of the things he spoke of being taught.

    “Evidence” is such a limiting thing. I can find evidence of both good and bad, darkness and light, within any person, place or thing…..everything in life is full of contradiction and irony.

  28. ditchu said

    Yes “To use ‘the’ proceeding ‘true church’ would strongly suggest a singular, as in only one truth.” but this “Only” relies on the fact that there is only one truth. I have not dicovered yet if there is one truth or several truths. My beleif is that there is one truth and many perspectives of that truth. If my statment precludes that there is only one truth then is out of my beleif that there is only one truth but I do beleive there are many perspectives of that truth and I do not conclude that I have a monopoly on the truth.

    That said, I think Jessuah Ben Joseph (jesus Christ) still directs his church to this day. Can I prove this? No, but that is why I specifically said I think it so.

    You said”Evidence” is such a limiting thing. I can find evidence of both good and bad, darkness and light, within any person, place or thing…..everything in life is full of contradiction and irony.” And I applaud you for this understanding. In the Book of Mormon there is this cool explanition that without the bad there could be no knowledge of the good, without sorroy we could not know joy.

    -D

  29. myreligioniskindness said

    Yes, that example of opposition is a universal truth for sure.

    An example of the ‘one truth’ can be found in the zeitgeist movie. Shows how all religions stem from one original belief system.

    I understand how threatening it is to look outside your current belief system, but it is worth it. I do not in any way regret my time in the church. It has truth and served as a springboard to further spirituality. There is a lot to ‘lose’ though in opening your mind to the larger truths that the LDS church eludes to…family, friends, security, community. But there is more to gain than I lost. I had no idea that my family would be so threatened by my ‘awakening’. I have never spoken of my journey to them without their inquiry, but I can see the blank stares and the fear for me.

    To me, the church is like first grade and works for people who need someone/something to hang on to to feel safe and right. It’s like everyone there sits around like the people in the B of M and the rumeumptum and tell each other, “Aren’t we lucky that we are here in first grade and isn’t DIck and Jane the best book ever written. If it weren’t for first grade we would never have learned to read and do addition”. And they read Dick and Jane together each week over and over and do different addition problems and say, “We know first grade is true because every time I add 2 and 6 together, I get 8.” and “Don’t read other books. Others may try to get you to read Dr. Suess, but that is of Satan. Dick and Jane are where the truth are. Besides, who ever heard of a cat wearing a hat, anyway”. And OMG, if anyone ever suggests it is possible to go on to the 2nd grade, they tell them they are in apostasy for reading a different book and Satan has them, after all….2+2=4. YOu can’t argue with that. It’s true. ” And they stand up in testimony meeting and tell each other stories of how addition has helped them in their life, therefore they have a testimony of first grade to be the only true grade. And anyone who speaks of high school or music or calculus has lost the Spirit, so we better pray for them.

  30. ditchu said

    “I understand how threatening it is to look outside your current belief system, but it is worth it”

    You think I have not? How do you think I came across the truth I know now if not looking outside my beleif system. I’ll have you know That it goew way beyound any movie that there is a fundemental coexistance of the same beleifs that span the globe and are found in cultures through out time. The question for us folklorist to attempt to figure out: Is id monogenisis or polygenisis, or spontanious? some might say it is the human factor, the need to beleive.
    -D

  31. myreligioniskindness said

    there you go again, with ‘the’ truth.

  32. ditchu said

    Would you rather we all seek after the false? Not I. I seek after truth and the ultimate find in that quest is the truth.

  33. deaconj123 said

    I liked Einstein’s summation of what he thought about religion; maybe his reflections on a prior first grade level of religion:

    “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.”

  34. ditchu said

    that statment was made before he helped create the first Atomic wepon, I think he had a change of Faith then because when they tested it the first time His comment was, “My God, what have we done?”

  35. myreligioniskindness said

    Very nice quote, deacon,
    I like the bumper sticker “Lord, please protect us from your followers” or I saw one “I like your Jesus, but those who claim to follow, I’m not sure.” Dali Lama

    I can see that you missed my point, ditchu. I can see why the mormon church works for you with all of it’s black and white and thick boundaries of right and wrong.

    I will just say that my point was that ‘all truth exists within one great whole’ (sound familiar?), rather than one truth negating another.

  36. skiutah said

    >>“My God, what have we done?”

    uh, stopped WWII, but that’s not the point.

    More to the point, all of the first graders standing around telling each other how great the Emperor’s non-existent clothes look. (aka JS and BoM). Eventually, they all except it as truth, except for the 2nd grader who says “the dude is butt naked.”

  37. myreligioniskindness said

    and isn’t it a relief…….when you find out you’re not the ONLY one who doesn’t see anything, and to not be in Kansas anymore either?

  38. ditchu said

    M…
    I did not miss your point. That is very well put, that there is one encumpassing truth that we all get a peice of. It is the Plato’s Horse ideal. All of these my truth is better than your truth comments that we often come across are all bunk, if there is one truth that we all see only part of. See I get it.

    All,
    As for the recent comments it seems there is a double standard, let me point it out:
    we are establishing the idea that there is Truth, one existant truth that everyone has access to and there are many differing points of view to the one truth. But a church or person who claims to have or see the truth is Wrong… Well I do not get this theory, If they have the same oppertunity to The “Mono-Truth” that everyone else does, how are they wrong to have the truth?

    As for my statments on “My church is true.” I would like to place it in the catigory of the Plato’s horse, it has “The Truth” but it does not restrict “The Truth” from others. Can you understand this?

    C… M… & Ski…
    I still use independant thought when dealing with my faith, this seems at odds with your history with church by your comments. I wonder, who was it that pulled the wool over your eyes?

    -D

  39. coventryrm said

    I know more atheists that say “Oh My God” or use Gods name in vain in many other ways much more than any of those I know that actually believe in God especially Mormons believers are told NOT to use GODs name in this way, NOW if you were to tell me he said “Oh my Heck” I not only would believe that he had found God but the LDS church as well.

  40. ditchu said

    It is intresting to me how fast people leave their tradition to seek after “whatever may be out there” and for a few years stumble around trying to either justify their own decision or convience others that they are correct. Many after they find that their journey is fruitless find themselves returning to the tradition they left behind. An example of this is when kids grow up and venture out of their parents house they are “Free to do as they please” and so they tend to do the things they were raised bound from doing, then when it gets old they settle down and create rules for their homes, often these rules tend to be a copy of the rules they left at their parent’s home.

  41. CoventryRM said

    Thats a pretty random comment is that what brought you back to Mormonism?

  42. ditchu said

    I was not always LDS. It is apparent now that the Path of my Life should not be revealed to you.

  43. myreligioniskindness said

    D,
    While your example happens, I would suggest that the ultimate outcome is probably due more to why they left and the age at which they left than the leaving in itself. Most people I know never return and find their lives better off than before.

    In contrast, perhaps they stay out of fear or spiritual deadening and spend years or a lifetime ‘either justifying their own decision or convince others that they are correct.”

    And for those who leave and return, then that was what was best for them and there was a purpose in their journey that returned them to where they started, but for the right reasons for them the second time.

  44. SkiUtah said

    >>rules tend to be a copy of the rules they left at their
    parent’s home

    Some LDS home rules to live by:
    – Pay, pray, and obey
    – Don’t study church history
    – Drinking green tea is worse than fornication
    – Prepare to be a polygamist in the next life
    – Women should be barefoot and in the kitchen
    – There is something wrong with gay people
    – A girl who has two earnings in one ear is a bad person
    – Playing with face cards brings the devil in your house
    – Family night is more important than MNF

  45. ditchu said

    Ski,
    Now that is just a childish stupid attack, Ohh, and outright misleading.

  46. SkiUtah said

    I’m guessing you were not raised by Mormons. I know it can be shocking when you first hear about this stuff…

  47. coventryrm said

    “I was not always LDS. It is apparent now that the Path of my Life should not be revealed to you.”

    I just wondered why the random comment that was completely out of context with any discussion that was taking place. Rather than personalize it as an attack on me or others I wondered if you were just speaking from personal experience or observation.

    What you want or don’t want to reveal is your business, this is a blog that I enjoy presenting information, discussions naturally follow suit you have made a choice to come and express yourself here. When you make claims or challenge the information presented you put yourself in a position to be questioned, to date you rarely have presented any source material other than your own personal belief, opinion or quoting scripture or basic LDS rhetoric. All of which I have heard time and time again.

    BTW

    Every one of Ski’s rules I have heard one time or another growing up in the LDS culture. So childish, yes I would say those rules are pretty childish, a childish attack or misleading – sarcastic at best!

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