Book of Mormonisms

Did they really say THAT?

The Pope doesn’t think it is a good idea for the Mormon Church to re baptize dead Catholics

Posted by coventryrm on Saturday, May 3, 2008

Vatican letter directs bishops to keep parish records from Mormons
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802443.htm

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39 Responses to “The Pope doesn’t think it is a good idea for the Mormon Church to re baptize dead Catholics”

  1. skiutah said

    The Mormon church has a history of offending other religions with the LDS necrophilic doctrine:

    http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600125516,00.html

  2. ditchu said

    I say baptize them all and let them choose to accept it or not.

  3. SkiUtah said

    okay, but what if the Church of Satan asked for all the birth and marriage records from all of the LDS church members, do you think the LDS church would answer “sure, baptize them all into the Church of Satan, and let them accept or not.”

    The LDS church response would be “we have grave reservations about this request…”

    (pun intended)

  4. coventryrm said

    It just seems plain silly when I look at it now. The only reason I can think of why it is important to do this work for the dead is it gives the TSCC a reason to have its members go to through the Temple Ceremony repeatedly.

    I remember taking my Grandfathers name through with my family and at the time I really was proud and overjoyed that we were doing this. I look back on it and feel a bit ashamed that I didn’t have enough love and respect for who he was and couldn’t just accept him for what he believed but that I felt the need to make him a Mormon in my mind to be at peace.

    After I pass the LAST thing I want my kids to do is re do all my LDS work, not because it somehow would impact me but knowing that they never could free their minds from such fucked up thinking. The very thing that will always at some level be a source of divisiveness within my family.

  5. ditchu said

    Give our records to the satin worshipers, Ok by me!
    They have no power or authority to harm anyone who doesn’t give into their propaganda. Also it is my understanding that they do not baptize but request an outh and covenant with he who would be assumed the Devil. You cannot choose for another person and you cannot force the choice. Join what ever church you desire and do what brings happiness. For me, I follow my God and he has laid out a plan for me and my happiness. I trully feel sorrow for those who think they need to cause pain and suffering to others for their own happiness, they must suffer so to bring this about.

    On this topic, you all should know that in the LDS church, the ordanince is preformed for these people, but it in not a given that they will accept it, even though they have left this life they still have a choice to accept the ordanance or to reject it. I place no expectations on the dead. They are in a better position to make up their minds than the living where many attempt to sway people from the truth.
    Peace in the Lord,
    -D

  6. Ditchu

    “On this topic, you all should know that in the LDS church, the ordanince is preformed for these people, but it in not a given that they will accept it, even though they have left this life they still have a choice to accept the ordanance or to reject it. I place no expectations on the dead. They are in a better position to make up their minds than the living where many attempt to sway people from the truth.”

    Its all nonsense .. simple as that .You have no authority , no permission and no justification for this.The man who started all this off ,
    lived off his members And

    Got himself a house built from them

    D&C 41 : 7 And again, it is meet that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., should have a house built, in which to live and translate.

    food and rainment too and whatever else he needs !

    D&C 43:13 And again, I say unto you, that if ye desire the mysteries of the kingdom, provide for him food and raiment, and whatsoever thing he needeth to accomplish the work wherewith I have commanded him;

    No need for him to work either .

    D&C 24: 9 And in temporal labors thou shalt not have strength, for this is not thy calling. Attend to thy calling and thou shalt have wherewith to magnify thine office, and to expound all scriptures, and continue in laying on of the hands and confirming the churches.

    A boarding house ( some kind of hotel ? ) I think he got a liqour license for this enterprise

    D&C 124:56 And now I say unto you, as pertaining to my boarding ahouse which I have commanded you to build for the boarding of strangers, let it be built unto my name, and let my name be named upon it, and let my servant Joseph and his house have place therein, from generation to generation.

    And an endless supply of women .

    D&C132:62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

    And collect his followers wives as he went along too .

    He had them for the unfortunate suckers they were.

  7. ditchu said

    “They that do not understand these things call it foolishness because things of the spirit are hidden from them.”

  8. Ditchu

    Hidden from whom ? you or me ?

    What is there to understand from a man using his members for his own material well being and sexual exploitations via so called revelation .What kind of man asks for other mens wives and even marries them ?

    What kind of man even claims that God made him do it all ?

    And ……What kind of man would even ‘defend ‘ and ‘justify’ this behaviour ?

  9. ditchu said

    Joe,
    Let the verse stand for itself. You keep putting your words in other peoples mouths. What is worse than all of that you spin the statments of others more than a politician.

    It should be time to move on, if by now you have had no effect on the issue. Sorry for your wasted effort but it is immatteral and bias to see things from your point of view.
    Farewell, and I hope you can heal from your experiences.
    -D

  10. coventryrm said

    EJ I sent you an email did you recieve it?

    I also wanted to point out – Ditchu for someone that is as uninformed and seems so unfamiliar with the writings of your church you certainly seem to take on an air of arrogance but even more revealing is your assumption of spiritual superiority an unfortunate and common symptom found amoung many uninformed LDS.

    Just keep in mind that we are not making up the quotes and information your church leaders did in fact say and do those things all in the name of revelation from God

  11. coventryrm said

    EJ it looks as if Judge Atherton is taking law from the JoD – wtf is the problem with this Judge can he be over ruled or held accountable

  12. Ditchu

    you said “It should be time to move on, if by now you have had no effect on the issue. Sorry for your wasted effort ”

    I’m confident my effort is not wasted. Teeling the Truth is never a waste of time.Defending the Lie is a waste of time.

    I expect to see a change of heart from you later on as you too try to help LDS members trapped by Mind Conditioning.

    Its clear to me how uninformed you are on church leaders past teachings .You are not able to help or discuss these issues properly until you familiarise yourself with them which I hope you will do in the coming months/years….

    ………and you are correct in calling your leader a ‘Profit’ $$ as thats a more apt description than someone in communion with God more accurately known as a ‘ Prophet’.

  13. ditchu said

    Joe,
    Sorry if my spelling (a result of free thinking) is not good enough for you as well. It is you that is misinformed as you look only at thinks that were said in another time with another context surrounding them.

    What next, are you going to tell me that my country is holding me captive and lying to me because they will not keep teaching that they have bombed and murdered thousands of innocent people in our history? Are you going to show me the distruction of two major cities in Japan, where many died with a bomb explosion but many more died slowly as a result of an unforseen result of that bomb?

    How do you justify one and not the other?

    I have come to gripps with the reality that there are people in history that made mistakes and are not Perfect, that some people decided to kill others and are noe held as heros, that some people gave talks that you don’t agree with and are held a Prophets.
    A leader is a leader, that does not make them perfect. Wether it be of a church or a country, what is the difference to you?

    I do not see how the church is “Lying” to us. If you can find the information then it must be readly available.
    It seems to me that you have many more things to confront if you think that anything less that full disclouser is a form of lying. there is no attempt to mislead someone in the church that I have found or seen. The mere fact that you have free access to this information should prove that it is not hidden from you.

    Peace in the Lord,
    -D
    It is you who is lying to yourself if you think the leaders are perfect. There is only one perfect person whoi has ever lived and that is Jesus Christ.

  14. SkiUtah said

    No one ever said the church leaders were perfect. Nobody believes them to be perfect (not by a long ways).

    What is amazing is that these guys said that they were in direct communication with God. And therefore anything they say should be interpreted as coming from God (lots of references for this, look them up yourself via Google).

    And these prophets have been consistently wrong on so many large topics: polygamy, racism, Indians being Lamanites, bigotry, the cockatrice, misogyny, evolution, nascent earth, and the list goes on and on.

    One can’t really defend these old LDS prophets because the LDS prophets of today say that the old prophets were wrong on all of the above topics. If you disagree with today’s prophets, you’ll be excommunicated.

    50 years from now, people will be saying the same things, the prophets of right now will be castigated and large amounts of LDS teachings will be tossed out as the ramblings of imperfect old men. And the cycle repeats…

  15. ditchu said

    So what does all this have to do with the pope?
    That was the main topic at the start of this post.
    Are we saying the same thing about the catholic church? It seems it could apply. Let us broaden the scope of this discussion and just include all religous leaders. Is there a religion out there that the same could not be said about? I wonder.
    -D

  16. coventryrm said

    I always find it interesting when this line of logic is used by LDS in these discussions. The church claims that they are the true church of God but then when measured against such claims immediately take the position of we are just the same as any other Church and that should be the standard in which we should be judged. It is like a Man courting a woman and treating her with respect and promising her his loyalty above any other man but he is lying and cheating on her and then when he is caught he says what is the big deal that is what most men do.

    We are not off topic at all the article was posted to demonstrate how unaware and arrogant the LDS church can be baptism for the dead is a prime example, Ditchus comments are also a perfect example. It is similar to the example James Carroll starts his book “Constatines Sword” how certains Christians didnt quite understand why putting a cross up at Auswitch would be offensive to the Jewish people.

  17. Queen Bee said

    So, those Satin worshippers…aren’t they an off-shoot from The Church of Pure and Natural Fibers?

  18. coventryrm said

    I think you are right……..I also think they worship in large buildings they are easy to spot as they have big signs – Linens and Things-

  19. myreligioniskindness said

    If you haven’t aleady checked it out……go to http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com. Not sure what I would have done with this information had it been presented to me while I still practiced Mormonism….or any other faith for that matter

  20. myreligioniskindness said

    Have you seen the zeitgeist movie?

    It’s worth a look. You can view it online at http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com

    Not sure what I would have done had I been presented that information when I was practicing Mormonism, or any other failth.

  21. blazeheliski said

    The Pope may not Mormons baptizing dead Catholics – but he has cleared the way for Catholics to believe in aliens.

    “The Vatican has now given the all-clear for Catholics to believe in life beyond our planet. ”
    http://io9.com/390224/pope-says-its-ok-to-believe-in-aliens

    Maybe that’s why the aliens are hiding from us; the aliens don’t want the Mormons to find out about them and start baptizing dead aliens. Or maybe the aliens are all Mormons and they are baptizing dead Catholics behind their backs? 😉

    I wonder if it is OK for Catholics to believe in aliens if they are all gay or “unisex?” 😉

    Blaze

  22. ditchu said

    Blaze,
    You must have a lot of time on your hands, some of this is too deep for me. 🙂

    The aliens are not intrasted with religion. they are more intrested in politics. Their propagand agents seem bent on golbal domination but they seem to have some sort of campaing investment around Arizona with all of those weird lights and stuff. Maybe they want us to write in one of their canidates, but which one they have so many.

  23. deaconj123 said

    I wonder if Neanderthals will get their dead baptized? Or do Neanderthals go to the animal heaven?

  24. blazeheliski said

    That is a good question.

    I also keep myself up at nights wondering about clones. When we get to the point where we are cloning humans from the cells of dead humans. If that dead person was baptized by the church with a baptism for the dead, does that mean that his clone is already baptized? 😉

    Blaze

  25. ditchu said

    I know about the Clone issue. Identical Twins occure when in one of the first several cell divisions, the cell mass splits in half making two distenct and equal cell masses. So they are from the same exact DNA but remain two distenct indivisuals, each with the status of a person. Thue a Clone would be their own distenct person and spiritually they would not be the same person.
    So to answer you question: “If that dead person was baptized by the church with a baptism for the dead, does that mean that his clone is already baptized?”
    No.
    But it would be intresting if the Clone stood in Proxy for the Dead person that they were cloned from, at the Baptism for the Dead.

  26. ditchu said

    On Neanderthals.

    Neanderthals followed the old Law, AKA the Law of Moses and thus their “Salvation” is due in part to their religious experiences.

  27. blazeheliski said

    Neanderthals followed the old law? I thought Adam and Eve were modern day humans created by God? I thought religious laws only applied to them and all of their descendants?

    Just to refresh your memory on human evolution (if you believe in that kind of stuff)…………here is a quote from a web page that covers that.

    “Most scientists favor the view that modern humans evolved in Africa and spread across the globe, replacing populations of H. erectus and Neanderthals. ”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

    So if humans replaced homo erectus and Neanderthals, but Neanderthals followed the old laws of Moses – do the old laws of Moses apply to the Great Apes also? 😉

    Blaze

  28. blazeheliski said

    Neanderthals followed the old law of Moses? I thought Adam and Eve were complete humans when God created them? I thought religious laws only applied to them and all their descendants? Let me refresh your memory about evolution (if you believe in that kind of stuff).

    Here is a quote from a webpage that talks about evolution……”Most scientists favor the view that modern humans evolved in Africa and spread across the globe, replacing populations of H. erectus and Neanderthals.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

    In reality – Neanderthals are closer to Great Apes than humans. If Neanderthals were bound by the “old laws of Moses,” then does that mean that the Great Apes are bound by Moses law also? 😉

    Blaze

  29. blazeheliski said

    Neanderthals followed the old law of Moses? I thought Adam and Eve were complete humans when God created them? I thought religious laws only applied to them and all their descendants? Let me refresh your memory about evolution (if you believe in that kind of stuff).

    Here is a quote from a webpage that talks about evolution……”Most scientists favor the view that modern humans evolved in Africa and spread across the globe, replacing populations of H. erectus and Neanderthals.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

    Neanderthals are closer to Great Apes than to humans. If Neanderthals were bound by the “old laws of Moses,” then does that mean that the Great Apes are bound by Moses law also? 😉

    Blaze

  30. blazeheliski said

    Neanderthals followed the old law of Moses? I thought Adam and Eve were fully developed humans created by God. The way I understand it – only Adam and Eve, and their descendants are subject to religious laws. Maybe a little refresher on evolution might be helpful here (if you believe in that scientific crap) 😉

    Here is a quote from the webpage on evolution I linked…..”Most scientists favor the view that modern humans evolved in Africa and spread across the globe, replacing populations of H. erectus and Neanderthals.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

    Basically – Neanderthals are almost closer to the Great Apes than they are to humans. Humans replaced homo erectus and Neanderthals. So if Neanderthals are subject to the old laws of Moses – does that mean Great Apes follow the laws of Moses also? 😉

    Blaze

  31. blazeheliski said

    Neanderthals followed the old law of Moses? I thought Adam and Eve were complete humans when God created them? I thought religious laws only applied to them and all their descendants?

    Let me refresh your memory about evolution (if you believe in that kind of stuff). Here is a quote from a webpage that talks about evolution……”Most scientists favor the view that modern humans evolved in Africa and spread across the globe, replacing populations of H. erectus and Neanderthals.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

    If Neanderthals were bound by the “old laws of Moses,” then does that mean that the Great Apes are bound by Moses law also?

    Blaze

  32. blazeheliski said

    Neanderthals followed the old law of Moses? I thought Adam and Eve were complete humans when God created them? I thought religious laws only applied to them and all their descendants?
    Let me refresh your memory about evolution (if you believe in that kind of stuff). Here is a quote from a webpage that talks about evolution……”Most scientists favor the view that modern humans evolved in Africa and spread across the globe, replacing populations of H. erectus and Neanderthals.”
    If Neanderthals were bound by the “old laws of Moses,” then does that mean that the Great Apes are bound by Moses law also?

  33. ditchu said

    No the Great Apes were bound by the sumarian cultures.

    Can you not detect sarcasim when you see it?

  34. SkiUtah said

    If the Mormons did one necro-baptism per second, that would be about 30 million necro-baptisms per year.

    Scientists estimate that there have been about 100 billion people born on planet earth (this estimate varies both higher and lower).

    If you divide 100 billion by 30 million, it will only take the LDS about 3000 years to baptize the dead…

  35. blazeheliski said

    If you haven’t learned by now – sarcasm generally does not come accross very well on message boards and blogs. If you are being sarcastic – most people will help the reader out by putting something like a winky face 😉 at the end of a post. Or insert something like “/sarcasm on.” Tone of voice and facial expressions are not available to help out your audience to let them know you are being sarcastic.

    To be honest, based on some of your other posts, I was not sure if you were being sarcastic or serious – thus my post on Neanderthals. Your post about 8 posts up talking about aliens is easy to tell your are being sarcastic becuase of the smiley face and the content.

  36. ditchu said

    Blaze,
    thank you for the suggestion. I will allow my sarcasim accopany some sort of emodicon.

  37. skiutah said

    It looks like the Jewish community can’t get the LDS necro-baptisms to stop, even though the Mormon church agreed to cease and desist (more like deceased assist):

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081110/ap_on_re_us/baptizing_the_dead;_ylt=Ahm0RgLlAPop2p4L1eXGWnms0NUE

    “Bring out your dead… bring out your dead…” — the Holy Grail

  38. ditchu said

    By the way the term necro-baptism implies that the ordinance is preformed with the deceesed body. This is not the case, this ordance is preformed with a proxy, some living indivisual stands in place for the person that had passed. Also the idea of proxy ordinance is not undocumanted or unorthidox as Christ when through the ordinance of Atonement as a proxy for all of us.

    God bless,
    -D

  39. SkiUtah said

    As the necro baptisms continue, keep in mind there will be no necro romancing in LDS temples. The prophet and seer Joseph Fielding Smith stated:

    “We never make matches for the dead in the temples… Where, however, a couple is engaged and the woman dies, she may be sealed to her intended husband.” (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, p. 177)

    Whereas if the man died, the surviving woman cannot be sealed to her dead fiance. This is because an LDS man can be sealed to multiple women (e.g. first wife dies, man gets sealed to a 2nd wife), whereas an LDS woman can only be sealed to one man.

    Necro polygamy?

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