Book of Mormonisms

Did they really say THAT?

My Patriarchal Blessing

Posted by coventryrm on Friday, April 25, 2008

“Brother Judah, with the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood and the calling of a Patriarch, I lay my hands on your head to give you a blessing that you have asked for, Judah, to give you inspiration and guidance at this time in your life when you are thinking so seriously about what you should be doing and your desire to be a servant of our Father in Heaven.  You are indeed blessed, Judah, in so many ways, to be in this family you are in, and to be here in this day to take advantage of the opportunities that are yours. You have led a pleasing and concerned life , thus far, and your prayerful attitude and your sweet, humble spirit will bring much in the way of guidance and inspiration from our Father in Heaven.  If you keep this spirit and plan your life you so can enjoy this and let nothing mar this, you will be directed and guided and you will have many opportunities and occasions to be thankful for and you will enjoy the sweet things of life, the comforts and blessings and joy and happiness that you seek. The gospel will mean much to you as you commit your self to its principles and keep his commandments.

The day will come when you will have a companion who will be a choice one, and meant to spend he life with you. Live so you are prepared for this day, and when you meet her you will know she is the one you should have, that you will be able to appreciate and sustain in her callings, whatever they may be, and she will give you the blessings and the guidance you need.

You will have great callings, Judah, in this church, callings that require that you understand the basic principles of the gospel and that you be committed and fully dedicated to that which you do. You will be looked upon by those you are associated with as a serious and spiritual man, so live righteously and be the great example that you should be. The Lord will bless you with understanding and knowledge and ability to interpret and feel the spirit that is in others who are associated with you. The resolution of problems that you will be faced with will come to you as you are called to leadership capacities.

Judah, develop a foundation that is secure and fundamental. Read the scriptures. There is much in them that you will enjoy and there is much the Lord desires you learn, and pattern your life after that of the Savior. You can be not greatly different from our first prophet in this last dispensation.  Knowledge and understanding and the serious attitude you have will bring forth inspiration that will astound you. Even, so you will be in communication with out Father in Heaven as he will reveal to you thing that only you will understand and others would not. You will sit in councils of the church and be able to concern yourself with the lives and affairs of others who are associated with you. Your testimony will determine the future of many. Those who have erred and who have gone astray will be led back by the strength of your firm hand and you advice and counsel. This is a great responsibility, Judah, to know that the lives of many are in your hands. So, live righteously and live with understanding and let prayer be prominent and important in your life.  Plan those things that you do. Plan them carefully; submit them to our Father in Heaven until you that warm feeling in your own heart. If you do not feel this, have courage to change, because the lives of some will depend on that which you do and that include those souls who are destined to live their early lives with you. Their future and their destiny will depend upon you, your guidance and that of your companion.

You are of the House of Israel, Judah, of the Tribe of Ephraim. As you are called to go on a mission, you will know and truly understand this. Search the scriptures so you know what blessings are in store for those of this tribe. You are entitled to those which have been promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  You will be able to share your knowledge and your understanding with others of other tribes, who will have leadership capacities as a later time.  You will have ease of communication and be able to speak their tongue and be able to understand them and they understand you.

Judah, there are other things that will be made known to you by various means.  You will be protected and you will be guided, until you live a life that is long enough to perform that which is important and necessary and which our Father in Heaven would desire. Also you will have great temptations. You will have feelings of spirits that are not desirable, that will try to deter you, and you must have the power of the priesthood to give you the strength you need, and also a strong companion, and you will need to be near our Father in Heaven in prayer.

Study the lives of those in this latter day who have been leaders in the church because you will have opportunity to live and perform as they have, and you should follow their example.

Judah, if you live righteously and are committed to those things that are good and wholesome for the benefit of the lives of others and also your own life, you will never need to fear for your own outcome, nor the bounties of life and success in the business field around you, but be sure you devote the time that is necessary to maintain the spiritual strength you need ad for the benefit of those that depend upon you. If you so the Lord will bless you with a call to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection and receive rewards for the good things you have done. Now, be obedient, Judah, to these desires of our Father in Heaven, this is important to you. Be obedient and be humble and always available. These things, I pronounce upon your head in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. ”

September 6th 1981

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76 Responses to “My Patriarchal Blessing”

  1. Miguel said

    Sharing a Patriarcal Blessing on your blog… is this wise?????

  2. coventryrm said

    What is unwise about it I took out my name?

  3. coventryrm said

    I should have inserted my temple name – hmm now that is an idea!

  4. ditchu said

    It is neither wise nor unwise to share your blessing in public. If you care that litle about it then there is little to no harm that could come back to you if someone decided to belittle or make fun of it. However it is unwise to share sacred things with those whom will naturally take it lightly. Hope for this that you do not feel the scorn of riticule.

    Although, what bennifit to anyone else is it to know your blessing? It is intended only for you and not for public scripture.

    I would warn away from publiclly displaying your sacred name or names, even nick names that people close to you use. In many cultures words have power and names have power. To know something’s or someones name is to have power over that person or thing. The name you were given in the temple is a sacred name of power.

  5. blazeheliski said

    “By the power of GreySkull!”

    Never say this phrase in a crowded room – there is usually not enough room for the power that will be bestowed upon you. 🙂

  6. Ditchu
    The LDS Patriarchal blessing is nothing more than a load of superstitious clap trap designed to keep people entrapped in Mormonism .

    And the Temple name can’t be that sacred ff everyone gets the same one on the same day .And further still there is even a sbstitute new name handy just in case the new name happens to be the same as the earthly name ?

    Doesn’t God know us each by name then ? Isn’t he able to tell the Temple Workers who is coming .I thought he moved about in those corridors ?

  7. coventryrm said

    My friend and busines partner stayed active in the Church for several years after I left, he had serious doubts and he and I would talk often, one day he was giving me a ride to the airport and said if you are so certain the church isn’t true tell me your temple name, I didn’t even hesitate and said “Judah” He was taken back for a moment and then smiled and said “do you realize that if your plane crashes how fucked in the head that will make me” I laughed so hard, good thing my plane didn’t get hit by lightening and crash!

  8. blazeheliski said

    I guess it is good I never made it that far in the church. I never even knew about these blessings and temple names. I probably would have started giggling during the prayer if I had ever made it that far.

  9. Jay said

    I don’t even remember my temple name. I got it 15 years ago and forgot it the same day. I’ve never bothered to try and find it out. Is God going to keep me out of heaven because of that? Scary!

  10. SkiUtah said

    My grandmother was promised in her patriarchal blessing that she would see the 2nd coming of Christ. Of course, she died 20 years ago.

    So either Christ came twice, or the guy who gave her the blessing wasn’t inspired by the spirit…

  11. Jay said

    SkiUtah,
    She’ll see it from heaven:) That’s what everyone says when a patriarchal blessing doesn’t come true (It must mean in the spirit world or next life). I’ve met a few and heard of many more people with the same promise your grandmother had some of them died also, some of them are still alive, so who knows. I’m sure we’ll be getting many more blessing with that promise also.

  12. Bishop Rick said

    I forgot my temple name and went back to the temple to have them tell me what it was…surely they had it on record. The looked up my records of the day I first went thru the temple and told me it was one of the following 3 names…upon seeing the 3 names I recognized mine.

    Interesting.

  13. Bishop Rick said

    Coventry, I had a thought. Since the priesthood authority was on the earth for thousands of years before Jesus (Aaron, Melchizidek, etc.) and there was no apostasy, it would have still been on the earth at the time of Jesus thru the Jewish sects of the day. In fact, it was this same priesthood that Jesus passed on to the apostles who then start a Christian sect of the Jewish church.

    If this is true, why would all priesthood authority cease to exist when the leaders of the Christian sect are killed? Wouldn’t it still exist with the other Jewish sects?

    If there was no apostasy, how could there be a restoration?
    I’m just sayin’.

  14. SkiUtah said

    As far as anybody can tell from any evidence, humans have been on this planet for 100,000+ years, did any of those humans have a chance to learn about Christ? Or do they just get it in the afterlife?

  15. ditchu said

    in responce to: The LDS Patriarchal blessing is nothing more than a load of superstitious…”
    Is it not true, that you think all faith or religion superstitious? It would sure apply to the deffinition of superstition. Why do you think I gave a warrning to all sacred things and non-public names? Am I speaking to the dead of spirit? am I not giving advice? Heed my warrnings and show wisdom or care not for it and fail to your own foolish pride.

  16. coventryrm said

    Now you can sleep well tonight knowing you warned an apostate, job well done!

  17. ditchu said

    Coventryrm,
    Do I detect sarcasm? “Now you can sleep well tonight knowing you warned an apostate, job well done!”

    Apostate or not, I gave my warrning. I will not loose sleep over your choice either way.

  18. Ditchu

    Yes that was my comment and observation after reading a few Patriarchal Blessings .They are just superstitious nonsense designed to keep a member bound to the church and worded in such a way that if a member doesn’t get the blessings promised then they will blame themselves .

    Mormonism teaches us that if we don’t get the blessings then it is our own fault. I’ve had a faithfull lifelong Tithe payer admit to me that she has no savings/money and only just scrapes by and could not afford to donate any money for her own charity run ! I was stunned .

    Here is a lifelong member who’s Patriarchal blessing told her she would be taken to the temple in marriage and is still single at 50 years old . She now has re interpreted it to mean in the next life !?!?!?

    These Patriarchal Blessings remind me of the Horroscope ( Zodiac Sign ) writers and fortune tellers who for a price will telll us what we want to hear so we will always return to them and pay them for further prophetic wisdom .

    And your ‘warning’ has as much validity as the one I got from JW’s some time ago that I would perish in Armageddon ulnless I come To Jehovahs Visible Organisation. ( ieJoin this Watchtower Society based in New York ) lol

  19. ditchu said

    Joe,
    You do have a cynical view on religion, don’t you? Primarily, do I care if you wish to heed my warning? No! Sorry if that seems heartless and un-Christian like, but I do not care for my sake if you deiced to heed wisdom or not. You have your agency and I will not stop hold you from it. My compassion is not yet that of Christ’s and I cannot worry about you to the extent you think I do.
    Secondly, My warning is not contained within the scope of my Church, and maybe not in the scope of religion at all. I gave my advice from a cultural perspective and with in the context you have placed it as Religious rhetoric. Well if that is how you see it, I can not be held responsible for the result.
    As to the Blessings: It is none of my business what others are promised or if they are worthy to receive their blessings still. It is not in my Authority to dictate these affairs.
    I can testify that it is uncanny the accuracy of the blessing I received and the many items that have already come to pass. I do hold it sacred and will not discuss it further with you.
    Peace in the Lord Jesus Christ,
    -D

  20. Bishop Rick said

    ditchu,

    You have a 50% chance of your PB being accurate. Those are pretty good odds I would say. Yours is one of the half that was correct.

  21. SkiUtah said

    I think most patriarchal blessings read like horoscopes. You can randomly pick one and it will almost always be somewhat correct. Mostly because the horoscope writers say things that I want to hear.

    Here’s my horoscope for today, it’s 100% accurate:

    You see irony in every aspect of human life. Research ideas before writing them down. People who own dogs from the breeds that start with the “ch” sound are awesome and great people.

    Now how could that horoscope writer know all of those details? I think I’ve found a new god…

  22. Jay said

    Mine has come true too! It said I would get the A priesthood. check. The M priesthood. Check. Go on a mission. Check. Get married in the temple. Check. Become a father to more than one child. Check. Hold leadership callings in the Church. Check. Looks like I’m batting a thousand. I must be one of those 50% too. Good thing I accomplished all that before I started doubting. Now that I’m only a “part believer” I only have little blessings to loose:)

  23. Here is my Patriarchal blessing for a JW .

    You will go door to door and be a great missionary .
    You will refuse blood in times of testing from Satan.
    You will marry a JW companion.
    You will be a special pioneer ( I think thats what they call them who do extra hours and get paid !!! ) but they call it a Stipend errr oops I mean allowance !

    I’m bound to be at least 50% right .Those who follow the ‘church’ ( all of them are required to ) and fulfill this wil think I was inspired .The other 30% approx will think they were unworthy hence no fulfillment ( LDS style ) and the clever 20% who saw through it will be on ex JW boards saying what an ASS was EJ our Patriarch 🙂

    PS …..

    MY PB for Scientologists

    You will buy lots of Dianetic courses to clear your mind of thetons and work your way to level 4 at least ! hahahaha whatever .. !??!?!

  24. ditchu said

    Joe,

    Do you lump all Christian faiths into one pot?

    Do you, simmer over these things, let them stew in your mind until you scoop out these tidbits of mental mush, or are these things regurgitated feelings from prior ill dealings with religion?

  25. Hi Ditchu

    When I was 20 years old I had the misfortune to meet the JW’s .. At the time I thought I had found the only true church restored through Pastor Russel and then Judge Rutherford .I believed that Jesus had returned in 1914 and approved the Watchtower Organisation as the one which was teaching the truth to the earth .It was all prophesised in the bible and Jw’s fitted it exactly .I believed we were in the last days and I began to warn my neighbours and friends and family .I believed the Catholic church was the Whore Of Babylon and other churches the many Harlots of it.

    I was doing my best to stop all sin .I read the watchtower and awake magazines and I was so happy beyond belief. Jesus was a JW so was Abraham etc etc …. I couldn’t understand why everyone was rejecting me and my message to them , surely they too would want to be in the truth ! I had all the answers too ! hahahah

    What followed was the most ridiculous few years of my life unbeknown to me because at the time I was ‘deluded’ .However I don’t blame myself fully, I didn’t know I was being lied to and manipulated .I would never have suspected that people would lie for the cause of religion .JW’s call it Theocratic Warfare ( LDS version is Lying For The Lord ).

    Thank goodness I got my first challenge from a Born Again Christian at the time who is now a lifelong friend of mine.He started a process which saved me from a cult.

    The JW mindset cause many problems for me though I escaped it eventually with my mental health intact.

    Mormonism is even more dangerous in my opinion .

    Little did I realise that Mormon Leaders work on the same principle of lying and deceiving as the Watchtower Society does .Its the only way thay can get converts and keep existing members bound and trapped in the religion.

    And no I don’t lump all Christian Faiths in one Pot .Mormons and Jw’s I lump together as a danger to family stability and ones sanity.

    How do you explain a JW dying over a simple blood transfusion ? You can’t get a better Testimony than that.

  26. ditchu said

    Joe,
    My awareness of JW’s in this matter is lacking to say the least. I know not their faith or tactics, I do feel sorrow for your mistreatment. On the side of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-Day Saints, I do not find this deceitful behavior you seem to think exists. I do not find the typical bondage to a religion. If you want out, just leave, do what you want and tell the church you are no-longer instead in taking part of its membership.
    I am unaware of the lies you think are in the LDS church. I would not say that I agree on all things with every member of the LDS church but there is a dis-proportionate amount this church’s doctrine I agree with over other churches I have investigated.

    With what little I know of the JW’s I would not lump them with LDS. My understanding is that the doctrine differs greatly in many areas. But I know nothing of the abusive behavior you are pointing to.

    I can see where you would be justified in debating the validity or incorrectness of a church you were a member of (JW’s as you stated) but what do you know of the LDS church that makes it “Worse” or more “Dangerous” in your mind?

    -D

  27. ditchu said

    p.s. LDS do use moderen Medical technology to save life.

  28. blazeheliski said

    I always liked the way the comedian Kathleen Madigan puts it. It goes something like this ……… ” The funny thing about religion is that most the people who practice religion in the world are going to find out at some point they are wrong. Only one out of the many religions can be right. Maybe all of them are wrong? When they get up to Heaven or the after life they will say to themselves ‘Crap – we were waaaaay off. Is that God over there wearing the “Who Farted?” baseball cap?”

    If all the blessings, rites, prayers, etc. make you feel better about yourself – that’s great. But there is actually way less than a 50% chance they are worth anything.

  29. ditchu said

    blaze,
    You are welcome to deal in the same religous curency as any of us but if you want to mint your own, that’s ok as well.
    One founding beleif in the LDS church is the right of all to prectice religion the way they want to. So I agree with you to the point that people should do what they think is right.
    As for my blessings being worthless, that is a matter of perspective. My Blessings are worthless to you because you cannot buy them so there is no associated value placed upon them. They are Priceless to me because I could not part from them at any price.

    Some rewards cost more than you can imagine.

  30. blazeheliski said

    I didn’t say that they were worthless – I just said that compared to all the other religions in the world – that there is less than a 50% chance they will be correct. I said that if they make you feel better about yourself – that is great, because they do have value to you.

    You are correct in that they would have no value to me, since I am agnostic.

  31. Ditchu
    I think You missed the point in my previous comment.
    I was trying to say that I know what you are feeling when you think you are in the one only true church .I thought that too once until I found out that the founders and men who run these religions are inherently deceptive whilst all the time teaching followers to practice honesty etc…..

    LDS leaders do it all the time through their magazines, talks, DVD’s etc…..

    JW leaders would publish similar things in the Watchtower magazines .They would tell their members that if they ever quote an Author/writer in a discussion with ‘investigators’ then they should make sure the quote is fully honest etc and not cut off half way or distorted in any way . It sounds great but The JW leaders are the most dishonest quoters when they write and publish the watchtower magazines … One Author I know for sure had even complained to the Watchtower Society and warned them not to quote him dishonestly ever again…..

    I remember once they referred to a ‘Satanist ‘ Author as a Historian in one of their publications because he seemed to support the Watchtower View on the nature of God .The real reality was he was a Satanist and believed Christianity was stolen in its entirety from paganism .

    If you do a google search Watchtower misquotes you’ll see what I mean .

    So why do I equate the LDS with this ? The Priesthood manuals and church DVD’s I experienced .They were all whitewashed and gave a totally false and dishonest portrayal of the LDS leaders and their teachings .Brigham Youngs Manual had his most dearest teachings missing and he was made to appear a monogomist …. same with the Wilford Woodrfuff manual .It spoke of his wife Phoebe and children but no mention of his polygamous activity and yet this is a fundamental belief of the LDS to the point where Widowed Mormon men are marrying polygamously any additional earthly wives in the Temple.

    Its in the Bishops handbook that a man can seal for eternity all his earthly wives but a woman cannot be sealed to all her earthly husbands….
    LDS leaders still lie now and hide the fact that Polygamy is a Key doctrine and only temporarily suspended because of the Law of The Land …..

  32. SkiUtah said

    Brigham Young taught that Adam was a polygamist:

    Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51

    “Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him…”

  33. ditchu said

    Polygamy in the LDS Church is not the issue that many seem to make it. Just so we are Clear: I would be hard pressed to marry more than my current wife.
    The choice of multiple spouses is available to us on this Earth, there are some countries that allow it.
    But as a doctrine of the church does it remain? Logic lends credence that it will exist in the Celestial Kingdom for the reason of keeping the marriages that have been made, together. That is, Logic dictates that these Unions will not dissolve due to the changes of the Laws of man.
    I have heard it direct from the leadership of the LDS Church that it has stopped on the earth! That means that we should not do this any longer. But in the after-life will it be active? I think yes so as not to dissolve the unions that have been made in the Celestial Kingdom, or its representation here on earth (in the Temples).

    This fact is not hidden but mitigated, so that if you have been married (legally in the Temple) to multiple spouses then you will retain that status in the after-life.
    -D

  34. coventryrm said

    If that is the logic then why can’t women be sealed to the all the husbands they were married to and passed on here on earth why can living men be sealed to more than one deceased wife but a surviving woman can’t be sealed to all her deceased earthly husbands. So LOGIC says they still DICTATE by the Earthly rules that collecting Wives for men is the way of Mormonism – You should review and read D & C 132.

    Also how can you revere and respect Joseph Smith and Brigham Young while at the same time comdemn Warren Jeffs? Both the LDS and FLDS claim to follow these men and consider them the basis for their beliefs, but yet the FLDS resembles much more closely what these Men established, taught and practiced that is why POLYGAMY still stays central to everyone outside of your bubble.

  35. ditchu said

    I do not know Warren Jeffs, I do not presume to be capible of passing judgement on him.
    I also do not presume Joseph Smith Jr. or Brigham Young to be perfect. They both were Human and not superior to the influences of humanity’s follies. I do however see them as great leaders and as everyone has made mistakes (except Jesus Christ) I do grant allowences in their lives. At the time they were in the leadership of the church they were doing the best they knew how.

    As I have it the best in my wisdom the inequality you see in men and women in the LDS Church is to be done away with someday. Oh, you are speaking of a time that there was general inequality between Men and Women in the United States Society. Your anger should also include rights to vote and own property in the country.

  36. Ditchu

    We are not talking about perfection here or a human folly.

    We are talking about the systematic abuse of women in the name of God.These men were narcissistic megalomaniacs believing they were gods in the making and that women needed to obey them into polygamous marriages for their own salvation’s sake.
    They taught that the womens purpose in life was to procreate with leaders like themselves since they were chosen by God and destined for the highest place in the Celestial Kingdom.Those girls who had any thoughts of excercising free agency and resisting were quickly reminded that they would go to hell if they disobeyed .(JOD’s)

    This is exactly what Waren Jeffs teaches.

    What exactly did the early LDS church leaders do to bring any sort of equality/rights for women ?

    They held women against their better judgement in polygamous marriages to men who had no right or power except what vulnerable members allowed over them through fear and intimidation.

    The FLDS resembles the early original church founded by Joseph Smith even to the point of keeping the traditional costumes of the time.

  37. ditchu said

    Joe,
    We are talking about human folly. What do you think people have a problem with these things if it were not for human folly.

    Again the instances you talk of about Joseph Smith Jr. and Bringham Young was in a time that the same fealings about the place of women these people held to was prevaliant in general society, with the simple exception that the LDS at the time thought better of women. Also it is history, I can look back and see the great follies of our political leaders, our civic heros that rival the claims you have on these men.

    I do not hold any leader to a standard higher than the one I hold myself to.

    In answer to: “What exactly did the early LDS church leaders do to bring any sort of equality/rights for women ? ” I do not know enough about certian parts of history to give you adiquate responce, but the preisthood.

    In the LDS Church the Preisthood is most commenly used to get the Men to do the work the women seem to take on naturally. This work is service to our fellow person. You may know it by the term of Charity, or Compation.

  38. coventryrm said

    Ditchu

    “I do not know enough about certain parts of history to give you an adequate response,”

    You really SHOULD bone up on that history as you are debating without any basis whatsoever accept for your own personal opinion that is solely based on your personal view and emotions or revisionist church history. You actually are a perfect example of what EJ has such a problem with. Members of the LDS faith arguing and debating with such limited knowledge exposes and makes obvious just HOW deceptive the Church is in disseminating accurate and true information to its followers.

    Bottom line historically and doctrinally there is little that would indicate or back up much of what you claim or base your opinions on, other than the inaccuracies that you have been taught through revisionist church history as presented to its trusting members like yourself.

  39. ditchu said

    C-
    Sorry if my understanding of the womans Rights movement does not meet your standards. I do not know the major players of that political and social movement enough to pick out the LDS involved.

    I also am not sure about the revisionist church, when did it come about and where can I find more info on it?
    -D

  40. coventryrm said

    The Church you belong to and the way its history has been presented to you is what is called “Revisionist”

    For example as a missionary I was taught that when someone asks about polygamy, you would tell them that so many of the men had been killed from the persecution that other men just married these women as a way to take care of them in the absence of their deceased husbands. The truth something very different JS was marrying and having sex with girls as young as 14 he was also marrying women that were married to other men. The LDS church has been teaching you “Revised” history. You can study the history yourself the Journal of Discourses and History of the Church are both a good place to start and not anti as they are actually church publications.

  41. ditchu said

    Ok
    What is your problem with the 14 Year olds thing. In the early 1800’s it was common place to marry at 14, 15 and 16 years of age.
    some people would marry at 13, but you are using today’s standard on a time that was much different.

    Thank you for explaning further the “Revisionist” thing. I would point out the all history is revised. Have you ever heard this statment? “History is writen by the Victor.” when we view History objectivally we see a lot more of both sides of the issue, but when we have an objective when we look into some part of history we usually hilight the instances that support our preconcieved views. We often paint our own version of History, and pass that along as the only history.

    I am supprised none of you have brought up people associated with NATZI Germany that joined the LDS Church. It is more resent at least, so we can understand better the attitudes and culture that it originated from.

  42. Ditchu

    you said ” What is your problem with the 14 Year olds thing. In the early 1800’s it was common place to marry at 14, 15 and 16 years of age.”

    We are talking about grown OLD men of age 57 marrying and having Sexual Intercourse with teen girls of 16 .( OrsonPratt ) ….( Orson Hyde at aged 52 with a 16 year old girl also ) .. and many more teen girls.

    This was not normal at the time .It was something that LDS leaders were doing in the name of God and the girls were threatened into it … See JOD’s ..I can send you the quotes if you like…..

    You are following a church which has its origins in deluded Con Men of the most despicable manner .If you like to see how the LDS church really was back then , just look at Warren Jeffs and his FLDS church.Thats what you are representing by defending the early practices.

    Worst still the LDS Apostles vowed ‘NEVER TO GIVE IT UP ‘ ! They didn’t want to give up ‘calling’ and Screwing teenagers in the name of God.

    Thank goodness ‘GOD’ clamped down on them Bandits and Pedophiles through the Law .Wilford Woodruff bragged it would never be given up …. yet it was … Todays LDS women have the Law to thank for their freedom to be in monogomous marriages.

    The real reality is that these men were ‘Imposters’ and not Apostles/ followers of any Jesus Christ .

  43. ditchu said

    Joe,
    You have effectively made it clear what you think of the LDS Church.
    But you are mistaken on the manner and culture of the Americas around the early 1800’s. It was indeed a practice seen outside the church as within. Age did not matter as much in the 1800 as it seems to today. If you could do the work you were expected to, if you could get married and your family wanted it you did. 14 or 40, you were an adult and expected to provide for your family, for women it was more the matter of working the home and for support they often married someone in their community. With the varying ages and limited choices in the LDS community at the time I can see why these things may have happened. But the anger is also understandable to a point, you see these times through the windows of the modern day and are refusing to acknowledge that there was a different stigma and cultural identity dealing with marriage and single life.

    The problem with FLDS, polygamous groups is that they are trying to live a lifestyle that they see existed in history but not do without the modern conveniences provided by society. As far as I can tell they are not under dire persecution, they do not live in the rural 1800 society. That lifestyle (if it ever existed the way they are trying to live it) is out dated and it is understandable that we perceive it to be wrong by today’s standard.

    Joe. I must ask you if you ever knew this Joseph Smith you talk about? Or any of these leaders you seem to have issue with? Did you ever experience the life of the early 1800’s?
    If all you are doing is reading accounts of people from that time and measuring their statements by today’s standard you are removing the most vital part of any folklore study: Context. It is important to keep in mind the context of history not just the actions and dates.

    If Joseph Smith Jr. asked my to hand over my wife as you claim (from personal knowledge) he would, My response would be that he is out of his mind if he thinks I would allow it. I would ask why he would make such a request and then tell him exactly what his worth is: Exactly the same as me. Just because someone is a profit of God does not make them more valuable or important than anyone else.

    Rest assured that if Joseph Smith did any wrong according to God that he is currently answering for it. What matters is what I do and the wisdom I apply to my life. Not so much what someone did in a different time and in very different circumstances.
    Peace in the Lord,
    -D

  44. coventryrm said

    Ditchu

    That is not true about the 1800’s I have you are once again spewing LDS propaganda NOT fact. The average age in the 1800s was closer to 21 in fact it actually went down from the 1890’s in the 1950’s to 20 you can get this information from the US Census bureau

    When I said

    “You really SHOULD bone up on that history as you are debating without any basis whatsoever accept for your own personal opinion that is solely based on your personal view”

    I was not referring to just the women’s rights issue I was referring to the bulk of the information you present.

    What is your background? What age – education? When making statements you need to provide the resource instead of just repeating the LDS rhetoric that everyone on this blog is very familiar with.

  45. coventryrm said

    PS

    You may find reference to the fact that there is reported accounts of record of 14 year olds being married durring that time period BUT guess where that was happening? UTAH!!!!

    It was not the norm throughout the US.

  46. skiutah said

    You can search for Joseph Smith’s marriages on this LDS church website:

    http://www.familysearch.org/

    That currently shows that Joseph Smith had 24 wives, some girls as young as 14…

  47. coventryrm said

    okay Missouri too will have some records of young marriages, again NOT The norm for the time period I think you have to go back to the like 1500 or 1600’s and even then in was more they were betrothed to someone.

  48. ditchu said

    married, betorthed or bequiethed?

    Why would there be a us census in the Utah territory back then? It was not part of the US at the time.

  49. coventryrm said

    What is your point? once your inaccurate information is exposed you just make some random silly statement.

    What is your education? Back ground? Why should we place any validity on any comment you have to make? at least try to back it up with a source with some basis.

  50. Ditchu you said

    “If Joseph Smith Jr. asked my to hand over my wife as you claim (from personal knowledge) he would, My response would be that he is out of his mind if he thinks I would allow it. I would ask why he would make such a request and then tell him exactly what his worth is: ”

    Well 11 men handed over their wives that we know of and you would have done the same unless you are a ‘William Law’ type ? ,that was the reality of the time.Members were kept entrapped in the through fear and intimidation.

    The following speech will prove what Joseph Smith was doing and teaching at the time…

    Jedediah M. Grant, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, pp. 13-14, February 19, 1854,

    Second councilor to Brigham Young, speaking in the Salt Lake Tabernacle

    “When the family organization was revealed from heaven—the PATRIACHAL ORDER of God, and JOSEPH began, ON THE RIGHT AND ON THE LEFT, TO ADD TO HIS FAMILY, what a quaking there was in Israel. Says one brother to another, ‘Joseph says all covenants are DONE AWAY, and NONE ARE BINDING BUT THE NEW COVENANTS; now suppose JOSEPH should come and say HE WANTED YOUR WIFE, what you say to that?’ ‘I would tell him to go to hell.’ This was the spirit of many in the early days of this Church….”
    “What would a man of God say, who felt aright, when JOSEPH ASKED him for his money? He would say, ‘Yes, and I wish I had more to help to build up the kingdom of God.’ Or if HE CAME AND SAID, ‘I WANT YOUR WIFE?’ O YES,’ he would say, ‘HERE SHE IS, THERE ARE PLENTY MORE.’… Did the PROPHET JOSEPH WANT EVERY MAN’S WIFE HE ASKED FOR? He did not,… If such a man of God should come to me and say, ‘I want your gold and silver, OR YOUR WIVES,’ I should say,’ HERE THEY ARE, I WISH I HAD MORE TO GIVE YOU, TAKE ALL I HAVE GOT.’“

  51. Ditchu
    You said
    “The problem with FLDS, polygamous groups is that they are trying to live a lifestyle that they see existed in history but not do without the modern conveniences provided by society. As far as I can tell they are not under dire persecution, they do not live in the rural 1800 society. That lifestyle (if it ever existed the way they are trying to live it) is out dated and it is understandable that we perceive it to be wrong by today’s standard.”

    So why does your church allows multiple polygamous mariage sealings for Widowed Mormon men in The Temple? Are they expecting hardships in CK ?

    Why did McConkie teach that Polygamy would return with The Saviour ? Is he expecting those 1800 American rural conditions once again ?

    The fact is polygamy was practiced for the purpose of a greater Exhaltation for the Mormon Men gods. The more wives the greater the exhaltation.It had little or nothing to do with anything else.

    Girls of 14,15,16 could have easily married an aprropriate partner .Instead they were groomed and conditioned into arranged marriages to the Old Mormon Leaders.( As continued by the FLDS)

    All my church DVD’s potrray the early leaders as Monogomous .There is no hint of anything else. Wilford Woodruff is seen telling the Newspaper reporter ( Mountain Of The Lord DVD) how he will be with his ‘wife’ Phoebe for eternity .Thats factualy wrong to put those words in Wilfords Mouth.He believed he would be with all his WIVES .

  52. ditchu said

    Joe,
    You should check your information again. When did you get the info that multipul sealings to spouses were happening in the temple? Not recent I think.
    Also, you have me all wrong. I would do as I told you. Whether it be today or in the early 1800’s.
    If the Profit today came to me and asked me to do something I thought immoral or in any way going against what I know to be right, I’d refuse. And if he said “God has asked for you to do this…” I would tell him, “God has not asked me.” And ask him, “How are you certain it was God?” Usually from his answer I would be able to discern what the Profit’s true intentions came from. Why (as you say) these men did not question these things I do not know.
    About Woodruff: What is your evidence of his beliefs on the after-life? Do you have access to his personal journals? That would be cool, to be able to read through one or the church leaders personal journals if they put down their thinking on spiritual matters as well of course.
    I do not and cannot speak for the thinking of the church leaders. If you are looking for a mistake in some of them, well you can choose from any of them and are bound to find a load of fault, however it will be no more than anyone else in this world (excepting Christ).

    C-
    You brought up the US census and told us it was from Utah at the time, Utah at the time Joe and I were discussing early 1800’s was not even Utah. It was outside of the US federal jurisdiction, at best it was a territory during some of this time. When it became a state the Federal Government had outlawed multiple marriages and the practice stopped.
    If you do not wish to give credence to my words it is naught to me, You can check these things out for yourself if you want, It is part of the public historical record.

    Peace in the Lord
    -D

  53. coventryrm said

    Ditchu
    “You can check these things out for yourself if you want; it is part of the public historical record.”

    I have AND the average age of marriage in the 1800’s was 20 to 21. 14 year olds being married was not the NORM = FACT

    The point about Utah is that within the Data there is mention of marriages as young as 14 – AGAIN NOT THE NORM –

    You are the one making the assumption that just because UTAH Was a territory and not yet a State no Data was collected. That is moot anyway – We know from LDS record that 14 year olds were getting married to old men. That covers UTAH –

    While throughout the rest of the US the AVERAGE MARRIAGE FOR WOMEN WAS 20+

    You should take your own advice and study.

    As far as EJ speaking for Church leaders he is doing exactly as you have suggested he has been reading what these leaders had to say it can be found largely in the “Journal of Discourses” and “History of the Church” like I said before you should do some studying in those resources and you will soon figure out we are not making this stuff up.

    http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/hh-fam/tabMS-2.pdf

    Year Men Women
    1890 26.1 22.0

  54. SkiUtah said

    Keep in mind these were 50+ year old pedophiles having sex with 14 and 15 year old girls (sanctioned by the LDS church at that time).

    You can look up any of these marriages (and ages of the parties) on the LDS church website: familysearch.org

    When I was in the LDS church, I was taught that these old men had multiple wives because there were more women than men, and it was normal at that time for 50 year old men to have sex with 15 year old girls. (Interestingly, these are the same reasons the FLDS leaders give their followers).

  55. deaconj123 said

    “When did you get the info that multipul sealings to spouses were happening in the temple?”

    Check the LDS church handbook, here’s what it says:

    “A man may be sealed to more than than one wife, if his wife or wives have died.”

    Ask your Bishop if you doubt the veracity of the above statement. It currently happens all the time in the LDS church.

  56. coventryrm said

    My Father is sealed to my Mom, she passed away 12 years ago. he married a non LDS lady and spent 10 years emotionally beating her into LDS submission and she was baptized LDS and later took out her endowments and My father is sealed to her as well. SO YES it is currently practiced in the TEMPLES today!

  57. Ditchu

    I think its been confirmed very well in the last few posts that Polygamous marriage sealings are being practiced in the Temple currently .

    I know a widowed ward member who is sealed to his second wife for marriage in eternity and is also sealed to his deceased first wife also.He will expect two wives so far in the Ressurrection and probably many more also as his increase continues.

    Out of Interest The Bishops handbook does not allow for LDS women to be sealed to more than one man.
    That means that if a female church member is sealed for eternity in marriage to her first husband and she marries again , she CANNOT seal the second earthly husband whilst still being sealed to the first one .

    That means she is possibly being unfaithfull to her first husband if mormons really believe in eternal marriage .When he calls her in the ressurrection he may not like the fact that she slept with another man temporarily whilst he was absent in Spirit Paradise !

    you said

    ” If the Profit today came to me and asked me to do something I thought immoral or in any way going against what I know to be right, I’d refuse.”

    I admire your common sense here.Unfortunately Joseph Smith was asking immoral things all the time and even worse those members believed him 😦

    Brigham Young was speaking nonsenses ( see JOD’s ) threatening and marrying teen girls in his old age and all the time claimed it was on behalf of God ?

    Its time you opened your eyes.Its not so bad finding out you’ve been duped after the original shock ( presumimg you don’t lose your family over it ) thats the destructive element of Mormonism where Family comes secondary to church .

    ……..and its nothing to feel bad about .It happens to the best of us and it happened to me as a youth by the JW cult.

    I’ve been duped religiously and financially somewhat too.I hope I’ve learned from it all.

  58. ditchu said

    c-
    Your data falls far too late. 1890 is about forty to fifty years after the time I mention. Do you have any data from 1800 – 1850? I would find it interesting.
    Thank you for you data after 1890.

    Joe,
    Guess what! Your attempt to warn me off from this church is at a loss. My original point is that I do understand these men to be imperfect. Does that mean I am in the wrong church? No! I do know that the LDS church is the true church of Jesus Christ. I do know the book of Mormon is true and it does have prophecy that has come to pass, even after the death of Joseph smith. For evidence of this look to the creation of the state of Israel in 1942. To understand this reference you will have to read the Book of Mormon (which is what I suggest about any book in order to make a decision about it).

    Peace in the Lord,
    -D

  59. coventryrm said

    The 1942 prophecy was copied from the Bible. (If you could have even come close to comprehending the cockatrice problem you would have figured that one out by now) Based on your logic at best it would just prove the Bible to be true – NOT the B of M. Furthermore tere’s no timetable on that prophecy, and if it didn’t happen in 1948, you would still believe it to be true, and you would just be waiting for the fulfillment.

    Jesus’ second coming was supposed to be mere weeks after his death. Yet, you still wait, and you don’t claim the Bible to be false because of this.

    BTW – I think most of of us here have read the B of M.

    Have you been doing any studying of the Journal of Discourses yet? A couple weeks ago you didn’t even know what that was so I am not sure you want to take the position of being better read than any of us in regards to LDS publications.

    As far as the Data yes there is plenty written durring the time period that would indicate that young marriages were NOT common in the 1800’s it was more common durring colonial times pre 1776 but still not the NORM.

  60. coventryrm said

    Follow up thought

    Ditchu

    I have a few questions and observations and express them sincerely and not to offend or deter you to continue in discussions here but simply feel they need to be addressed. I am not sure why you feel the need to post here, to convince us that the LDS Church is true? To give counter arguments to the things posted here? Or perhaps you are searching? Or are you trying to continue to convince yourself that the LDS Church is true?

    I ask these questions for several reasons. The arguments you post and the information you bring to the table is not typically consistent with most LDS apologetics I have encountered on the internet, in that you seem to have a very limited knowledge regarding your own Church History.

    The reason I ask why you are posting is that when presented with actual information that runs contrary to your arguments you seem to just dismiss them and jump to another topic or simply bare your testimony and claim to know it is true. Here is an example – Polygamy still being practiced in the temple in preparation for the afterlife. – You said –

    “You should check your information again. When did you get the info that multipul sealings to spouses were happening in the temple? Not recent I think.”

    Clearly we illustrated that our information was correct they are happening and continue to happen to this day. Your response was to bare your testimony and give a very poor example of evidence with the 1942 prophecy.

    You also made the comment – “About Woodruff: What is your evidence of his beliefs on the after-life? Do you have access to his personal journals? That would be cool, to be able to read through one or the church leaders personal journals if they put down their thinking on spiritual matters as well of course.”

    The Journal of Discourses is basically just that, from prophets and apostles dating back to Brigham Youngs time and History of the Church going back to Joseph Smiths – you should check Josephs “King Follet” talk, but yet you don’t seem to seek this information on your own.

    My impression from the arguments you make is that most of your knowledge is from listening to what is taught in church and not much on the way of personal study. Most of the arguments you make are the old standards that most LDS apologetics no longer use or have abandoned as more information has surfaced and no longer fit or even make much sense.

    All of us that regularly post on here have read and are very familiar with all the Standard Works used by the LDS church as well as the many other writings and publications of the church and its leaders. Our information is well founded researched and correct. You may disagree with our conclusions on what the significance or impact this information has.

    My point is this. Are you seeking actual truth and answers willing to have a worthwhile discussion? Or are you just going to simply continue to refute and confuse every issue or item posted here because you have had some emotional/spiritual experiences that you have personally interpreted as your witness to truth and no evidence or information will change or impact that?

    It is worth my time to have dialogue with you if you are sincere in researching and considering what I have to say or present. It is not worth my time if you continue to take the position of “I want it to be true so therefore it is true and nothing else matters” every bit of information you present if I have not already heard it and researched I thoroughly explore and research it. For example in regards to marriage age I had researched it before but also did it again and came across a few new sources – such as – “Gender and Morality in Anglo-American Culture, 1650-1800, Ruth H. Bloch”

  61. ditchu said

    C-
    You have not been clear. When asked about your evidence you seem to linger on one source and when you pony up and do give the data you say backs up your argument it is not with in the limitation that were preset (The Census info was 50 late). You should know that I am unaware of the tactics of LDS Apologetics because I do not see myself as one and do not claim to be the authority on scripture. You on the other hand do not back up you accreditation but feel you are the authority on many topics and when confronted ask what is the other person’s authority on the issues. My opinions are not that of the church or that of other LDS but are mine and are personal to me. Why I offer a counter view on your issues is because I feel I have a differing Point of View to offer. It is usually you or Joe who banter me into a different topic. I try not to switch topics. For proof of this just look through this run of comments and see who changes topic. I believe the original topic was on the validity of a blessing, I did not bring up another topic but was handed it by someone else. If you wish not to continue our discourse that is fine with me.

    What more is how confusing your arguments seem suggest thing are not as they should be. to clarify I offer your comment about something you say you have read and suggest I research, “The Journal of Discourses is basically just that for prophets and apostles …” If it’s just for Profits and apostles what are you doing with it? Also you have just ignored my stance on this issue because you seem to gloss over the fact that it does not change my opinion of the Church because a few men were not perfect, Big surprise. I’m certainly not perfect and I doubt that you are, so what is it that you judge others by another standard. Only Christ is Perfect and we are not saying anyone but Jesus was the Christ, not even our early Profits. What appears to me hangs you up on this is you have based you faith on men and then found them to not be the perfect people you thought they were. I can see that that has created some contention in you and as a result you are angry, you may feel betrayed and lied to. I can understand you view on this but it is not the church’s fault you feel this way. A church’s (any church) position is such that they feel obligated to uplift and support their members in doing what they (Collectively) feel is right. To do this a common tactic is to use stories. In these stories the more examples of how to live or people doing “right” the better, also the more of these stories that are true and of some revered person from that religion even the better. This is the root of your issue. (Both c- and Joe.) You feel lied to and betrayed by a church that you think needed to look out for your better interest, but in fact it was this exact thing that led to your current position. If you had realized the error of putting faith in an imperfect person early you may have seen past all the good flowery stories you usually hear and see these Profits as they truly are, men. Men as imperfect as the rest of us people. What should you put your faith in? Well all Christian groups will gravitate to Jesus Christ, as in that faith he is perfect and thus you will not be betrayed by that investment of your faith.

    here is the thing about the Book of Mormon:
    1. If the bible is true: It gives this prophecy before Israel had been broken apart, also before it was brought back together.
    2. If the Book of Mormon is true: It gives this prophecy before they knew Israel had been broken apart, also before it was brought back together.
    3. If the Book of Mormon had originated with Joseph Smith Jr. and is a work of fiction: It gives this prophecy after Israel had been broken apart, before it was brought back together, and it was unlikely that Israel would ever be more than a remnant scattered among all nations.
    Conclusion: So if we deduce from this that the Book of Mormon was false then it would either contradict the bible here or the bible would be false too. Also If it were untrue Israel would never have become the State it is today.

    Also you keep eluding to some sort of mysterous data that you cannot show. I have not eluded to any data but have prompted for others to seek out the truth of the matter for themselves so as to not overly influence their own judgment on these things.

    Peace in the Redeemer, Our Loard Jesus Christ,
    -D

  62. Ditchu

    You said with ref to CRM

    “The Journal of Discourses is basically just that for prophets and apostles …” If it’s just for Profits and apostles what are you doing with it?”

    He meant the Journal Of Discourses is FROM Prophets and Apostles. I’m shocked that you are not even familiar with this source of original Church teachings .

    About the prophecy of the Israelites regathering etc.
    For a start Joseph Smith just stole it from the Old Testament , so did NOSTRADAMUS , he refers to Israel regathering and being a nation – should we sing praises to him as well ?

    The New Testament church never made any reference to it or even seemed to be aware of it.

    Every nation experiencing occupation or injustice has writings predicting their eventual victory and return to homeland or freedom from the oppressor at least .In the Ukrainian tradition they have a poet called Taras Shevchenko , he prophesised and sang that Ukraine would one day be free and look at it now ! Russia has lost its communist grip and Ukraine is free. Lets start a religion based around him as a prophet .

    Look at Islam , they are prophesising that all the world be islamic eventually and you are probably thinking the same of mormonism.

    The point is all nations have this nationalistic rhetoric and some are bound to come true.

    I also don’t like the fact that you want to bring the bible down as false just because the Book Of Mormon turns out to be fiction from Joseph Smiths head .

    I have learnt from experience that Mormons are two faced , they say we believe and love the bible , but if you prove or accuse our Book OF Mormon to be false then the bible is false also ??

    Also I get fed up of mormons teling me ‘we believe all churches have truth’ when I KNOW that they know for a fact that they saw the temple endowment teaching them that all other churches are from Satan and showed him doing a deal with a church minister ! ( it was taken out in 1990/91).

    You are also using the excuse of ‘perfect people ‘ to excuse away the horrors that the early polygamists like Brigham Young and many others inflicted on teenage girls amongst many others .
    Its a crap excuse .We are not concerned with perfection , we are concerned with Tyrants , Cult idiotic leaders and Megalomaniacs who prey and suck every last ounce of dignity and self worth from gullible followers for their own narcisistic egos.

  63. ditchu said

    Joe,
    Let C- talk for herself.
    She has shown me that she is very capable of stating exactly what she means. For the hard time she has given me months ago about spelling I think she would catch any mistake she would type that made, so I do not take your statment as her’s.

    C-
    At least you try to keep with the current topic and often you do express yourself more clearer than others.

    Peace,
    -D

  64. coventryrm said

    CoventryRM = He

  65. coventryrm said

    And

    EJ was correct “For” should have been “From”

  66. ditchu said

    Sorry for the mix-up. Someone wrote from your account several weeks back in a way that suggested you were a woman. Also about that time for all the hell that peoson dumped on me for spelling errors I thought you would be more accurate with your own words.
    -D

  67. Ditchu

    I should have added that I don’t hate individual LDS members like yourself , though my Assertive and Brash responses may give that impression …….

    I attended for two years and loved many of the members .Thats the hard part in it all for me .How do I reconcile the hate and dislike I have for the origins of mormonism and its deceptive leaders with the love I have for the ordinary members ?

    There were some members ( minority )who I would consider dangerous though and that too is a good reason to keep me away. I felt the force of the judgemental arrogant ones , especially as I didn’t get a testimony which suited them and was asking more meat than milk type questions.

    Unfortunately too, It seems to me that the church has moulded them into that way of thinking 😦

  68. coventryrm said

    I think the fact that my PB says Brother should have left out all confusion 🙂

    I like anyone will make typos – I am glad I gave you crap for your spelling and so should you be. I take credit for that fact that it is a lot easier now to actually figure out what you are trying communicate 🙂

  69. blazeheliski said

    Although – I get confused sometimes, because there have been many times when “C” acts like a “she” on “skis.” Hey, that kind of rhymes. 🙂 😉 0)

    OMG – I can’t believe I just said that. Sorry C – I just couldn’t help myself. It was set up waaaay too easily. Excuse my poor humour. 😉

  70. coventryrm said

    That hurt

  71. coventryrm said

    BUT was purty FUNNY!

  72. blazeheliski said

    In reality – I am just jealous that you get to ski waaaaay more than me these days. 😦

  73. Grace said

    Well, Well, I could say alot on the comments I have read; although, go back and reread his blessing, you may see that God does know all especially, us, His precious children who are struggling to find ourselves. We who are tempted greatly because satan knows our worth and is determined to gain our support on his team, his side in this war.

    Yet I see much strength in your words of opinion & advice, for why even with those words, would you be reading those on this website. Are you trying to prove to yourself that you are right in the choices you have made, make yourself feel better? I don’t know, I don’t care only that you listen to your spirit, the true YOU that stood for Christ, in the pre-exsistance.

    Stay true to yourself, your inner strength; yet remember just as you always must feed your bodies, the same is with your spirit, other wise just as your body loses mass or content, so does your spirit – you lose the testamony of one thing at after another.

    My Patriachal blessing has been my compass, my guide, a reminder of how loved I am that Father prepared me a map (scriptures) and then He loves me so much that He put signs along the way – Baptism, Church, Blessings, and more than that He gave me the chance to have Him speak to me through His vice president: the Prophet, and worthy Priesthood holders.

  74. blazeheliski said

    “Stay true to yourself, your inner strength; yet remember just as you always must feed your bodies, the same is with your spirit, other wise just as your body loses mass or content, so does your spirit – you lose the testamony of one thing at after another.”

    If you only “feed” your body without exercise your body turns into Jabba the Hutt. “Exercise” is the act of forcing your body outside it’s comfort zone, challenging it, exerting it. If you want your body to be a valuable intstrument, you must engage in some form of training. Training requires you to challenge your body even further – many times beyond the limits of your body.

    If you only “feed” your spirit – your spirit becomes bloated with no value or content. You must challenge your spirit and your mind if you want them to be of value also. Do you really think that reciting something that you have heard thousands of times since childhood every Sunday is challenging your mind and spirit? To challenge your spirit and your mind, you need to step outside your comfort zone of the church and give that spirit a good workout. If after your “spiritual workout” you still believe what you currently believe – then just imagine how strong your spirit will be! Or you may find your mind and spirit will grow in directions you never imagined? Consider it. 😉

  75. coventryrm said

    Amen Brother Bill, couldn’t have said it better myself!

  76. skiutah said

    Here are some excerpts from early on Mormon patriarchal blessings, which included promises of inter-galactic travel and shape shifting amongst other things:

    http://www.xmission.com/~research/about/patb2.htm

    In comparison, my blessing is pretty bland…

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