Book of Mormonisms

Did they really say THAT?

LDS Missionaries Photographed ‘Mocking’ Catholic Church

Posted by coventryrm on Monday, March 10, 2008

http://www.kutv.com/content/news/topnews/story.aspx?content_id=9ea478bd-576d-40c9-8011-b2bf2eae7fc2

 

I post this as I find it interesting that the Church is mainly apologizing for “damage to property” in this article.  I can tell you from my experience as a missionary in England where there was plenty of Church of England and Catholic landmarks that it was more common for missionaries to make fun of and mock than to visit with reverence and appreciation.  You mainly have 19 to 21 year old boys  forming basically a fraternity based on the thought that they are fighting a war against evil and Satan to save souls by bringing them into the LDS faith.  I know the Church will most likely take the position that this is the exception and not the rule, I would be willing to wager that if you were to go through most missionaries photo journals finding pictures like these would be a regular occurrence.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=P1UrS0U9dUw

This is at a ZONE conference – I would say mocking other religions is the norm not the exception!

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32 Responses to “LDS Missionaries Photographed ‘Mocking’ Catholic Church”

  1. Miguel said

    I am glad I don’t have ANY pictures like these in my journal.

  2. SkiUtah said

    Based on my mission experience, I’d say 9 out 10 missionaries have photos exactly like that.

    When your church is God’s chosen church, and all other churches are wrong, like it or not, it creates a culture of disrespect towards other churches.

    Mix that in with 19 year olds who are part of God’s personal army, and you often get stupid, insensitive behavior (especially from the missionaires born and raised in Utah)…

  3. Clayton said

    This type of photographic religious mockery is a common practice in LDS missions. I was a zone leader in a South American mission. I have seen many pictures of this type. Some were taken by examplary missionaries that have gone on to hold and fulfill significant positions in the church.

  4. bob said

    Ive seen this a lot in my mission too. Its sad

  5. coventryrm said

    I just read that one of the missionaries has been sent home and the others who are already home will face Church discipline

    So there you have it the Church is going to take the position that these young men were and exception and punish and scapegoat them, when what they should do is admit that this is a problem inherit with sending these young men out as missionaries. I hope these missionaries will see the Church in its true light, and run and distance themselves and start on the road to recovery and be forever thankful for the lesson learned here and the freedom and peace that will follow.

  6. deaconj123 said

    Good thing it was a Catholic church and not a Muslim mosque, can you imagine the Islamic reaction to desecration like this?

    I’ve been on some LDS blogs on this, some of the Mormons are decrying this act, but others are saying “what’s the big deal, boys will be boys…”

  7. coventryrm said

    What I have found it seems that those that decry are also in denial that this is very common behavior among missionaries in the field. The other ones are saying no big deal and are spinning it as an attack on Mormonism, truly amazing.

    The Church should admit and apologize that its teachings have contributed to the behavior and take responisbility otherwise are they going to send home and take disciplinary action against all missionaries that have taken this type of photo, I think they would be sending home over 1/2 of thier missionaries.

  8. SkiUtah said

    Interestingly, these missionaries were serving in Manassa, Colorado. Home of the famous mormon, Jack Dempsey, aka the Manassa Mauler.

    It’s ironic that these missionaries have also earned similiar fame for mormons that can knock heads off. (albeit statue heads in this case)

  9. clayton08 said

    The issue here is more than just teenage boys having fun. The bigger question is why is it so pervasive. I’d suggest that part of the LDS culture is a pious and exaggerated sense of their own importance. This is a shared attitude that is instilled in children from the primary on up. They are taught that they are the choosen generation that has been saved for the last days. As such, they do not truly respect the beliefs and practices of others instead they merely indulge or tolerate those beliefs or practices. Mockery is one manisfestation of this attitude. If we expand the issue beyond religious mockery, I think we’d all be suprised by just how many pictures we’d find in missionary journals that mock the values, goals, and social practices of other cultures, institutions and organizations. It is noteworthy that open bigotry is not a common mormon expression. Instead, it is a quitely held belief that occassionaly raises its ugly head to public view as it has done in this case.

  10. SkiUtah said

    Mocking other religions is ingrained in the LDS culture. It starts with the first vision, where Jesus tells JS “… they were all wrong … all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt…”

    The mormon missionaries are taught this concept of religious superiority from infancy; starting with the story from Jesus proclaiming that all non-mormon religions are wrong. This “we’re right, they’re wrong” idea is reinforced over and over again by church leaders and teachings.

    Given their “religious supremacist” upbringing, one can see how it doesn’t take much to get the LDS missionaries to ridicule and deride that which other religions consider sacred.

  11. clayton08 said

    Here’s a great example of what happens in missions. Take a look at the Blogroll links (see the left side of the home page of this site). Go down to Utahnite. Click on it and you will see a YouTube video of Mormon missionaries mocking a black baptist minister. It is a great example LDS religious/racial mockery.

  12. coventryrm said

    Hey Clayton I also included that in my post above!

  13. blazeheliski said

    I wonder what happened to these two missionaries? Punishment or praise? 🙂

  14. bolderdash said

    these are not mormon missionaries. they are guys mocking mormon missionaries. one clue is the tags, the tags have never been white. they are exactly as they have been from at least 35 – 40 years ago.

  15. coventryrm said

    The tags are black and are official. The LDS church has admitted and apologized on behalf of the missionaries and released their names to the proper authorities so I am not sure why you would even attempt to lie for the lord in this instance.

  16. coventryrm said

    Bolderdash

    I just realized that you were commenting about blaze’s post and link, yes I would agree that the kissing missionaries are fake and most likely two guys in costume at a party or celebration!

  17. New Link for LDS Elders mocking other faiths.

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DnVYV2KqH3Y

    Utahnite has been targetted again by the Church/members in a campaign to silence him.

  18. blazeheliski said

    Yeah – I just did a quick Google search for funny Mormon missionary pictures. I did not look very closely at the details. I normally don’t look very long at pictures of guys kissing, but if it was a picture of two female Mormon missionaries kissing – I could probably tell you every detail of the picture. :0

  19. John said

    Wow.. I like how we are title dropping on this board.

    We have some big bad zone leaders on here?

    Ok, I was AP. I was AP in THIS MISSION when THIS HAPPENED.

    I’m here to say that this IS the exception.

    Don’t talk if you don’t know about this. Sit down.

    Basically that means this should be the bottom line.

  20. John said

    PS. This wasn’t at a ZONE CONFERENCE.

    Quit making things up.

  21. coventryrm said

    John

    John

    I think they call what you are going through “denial” go with it and things will get better, I promise!

    Perhaps it was the talent show or some other gathering it being a zone conference or not a zone conference is insignificant to the point being made. LDS missionaries mock and have little respect for other religions, that was my experience as a missionary but something I would have never admitted to while I was TBM to non LDS so I understand your need to defend and or minimize this missionaries actions it is embarrassing to get caught or be associated with such behavior.

  22. John said

    Coventryrm,

    It makes me sick that you would post an article about something you know so little about.

    This was not a conference, meeting, or anything else. These missionaries went to see the area on preparation day.

    Also, you probably didn’t know, the Catholic Church has come back, apologized to the missionaries for the accusations. The Catholic Church was trying to charge the missionaries with vandalism; until some members of the church found a picture of the same statue that was taken prior to the date the missionaries took the picture and the head was clearly already broken off the statue.

    In the town that this occured, every six weeks, the people from the town call the mission president and ask him to pull the missionaries from the area. Saying they are unwanted because it is an all Catholic community.

    They were looking for ways to get them out of the town for years which is why they put together a fraudulent accusation against the missionaries. Sure, one of them took a picture “mocking” the church by holding up a Book of Mormon. The fact of the matter however, is that he should be preaching to the congregation of the church. That is why he was out.

    Thank you for making up tons of details to this case. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

    Now sit down, and shut the hell up.

    Thanks.

  23. coventryrm said

    I have spent more of my life within the LDS culture and community that out of it I served a mission I know what I saw and how LDS behave and say amongst themselves… I used to be part of the “Group” I do know what I am talking about when it comes to the smug attitude that LDS have towards other religions. After all you do have ALL the truth everyone else either has a portion of or skewed view of the truth…. Come on start being honest with yourself and stop with the denial……
    John

    Not sure what you meant by this comment

    “Sure, one of them took a picture “mocking” the church by holding up a Book of Mormon. The fact of the matter however, is that he should be preaching to the congregation of the church. That is why he was out.”

    Sounds a little smug to me……care to explain?

    • John said

      Sure, I’d be happy to explain.

      One of the missionaries was holding up his Book of Mormon as if he was preaching to the congregation of another church. I do not consider that a “mocking” situation. That is exactly what missionaries are supposed to do, teach everyone they possibly can.

      Exactly like the picture of that missionary illustrated, I actually did preach at another church with the Book of Mormon and Bible.. (Vanguard Christian Church on Academy in Colorado Springs July 2006) It was “open-mic” night at the church and nobody was talking about Jesus. (go figure) So my companion and I spoke up. We preached about Christ. We found common ground and taught truth to the people at the church, which I’m sure was a very foreign concept to them. Within two months, 6 people from the congregation became members of the LDS Church.

      Does that answer your question?

  24. skiutah said

    I think John got two separate topics mixed up. One is in regards to the Mormon missionaries that were mocking the Catholic church. Here’s a link to that article (from above):

    http://www.kutv.com/content/news/topnews/story/LDS-Missionaries-Photographed-Mocking-Catholic/vXiknm1XyUCAEbK_Lq5_wg.cspx

    Then John confused that with a second item posted (from above in original posting):
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=P1UrS0U9dUw

    Which shows missionaries mocking other religions at a Zone conference (different from the missionaries mocking the Catholic church).

    Or perhaps this one which also shows missionaries mocking other religions at a zone conference:
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DnVYV2KqH3Y

    Or maybe he confused it with this one:

  25. coventryrm said

    Yes, John it does.

  26. John said

    Good. Now I have questions for you.

    1. Why did you make up details on this article to make it more dramatic?

    2. Since I’ve seen blatant lies in the things you wrote on this article of an event in which I was an eye witness, how am I to believe anything else you ever write?

    3. What is it that you have against the LDS church?

    4. What church is it that you believe Christ is the head of?

    5. Is the Lord the same yesterday today and forever?

    • coventryrm said

      1. Why did you make up details on this article to make it more dramatic?

      What details did I make up? I posted a newspaper article and then wrote what I had experienced on my mission.

      2. Since I’ve seen blatant lies in the things you wrote on this article of an event in which I was an eye witness, how am I to believe anything else you ever write?

      Believe what you want, again what were the blatant lies? I simply posted an article and commented on my experience as a Mormon Missionary

      3. What is it that you have against the LDS church?

      I think it is silly and feel sorry for those that actually believe and buy into such obvious nonsense and it is just too easy to find stuff, kind of like picking low hanging fruit.

      4. What church is it that you believe Christ is the head of?

      None, I am atheist

      5. Is the Lord the same yesterday today and forever?

      No the myths keep changing with scientific discovery and the influence of social conscience.

      John

      You asked me if you answered my question, I simply said yes you did.

      I think you have clearly shown in your answer that you will make any excuse to argue that there was no harm and that what the missionaries did was not offensive, fine.

  27. skiutah said

    1. Why did you make up details on this article to make it more dramatic?

    I don’t think John read the original post very well. There were two links, one to a newspaper article about missionaries in Colorado and another link to a youtube video of some missionaries at a zone conference mocking a baptist minister. There was a comment about the youtube video being a zone conference. John thought the comment about the youtube video was in regards to the newspaper article about missionaries mocking the Catholic church.

    2. Since I’ve seen blatant lies in the things you wrote on this article of an event in which I was an eye witness, how am I to believe anything else you ever write?

    A lot of the material posted on this blog are direct quotes from LDS leaders from LDS publications.

    3. What is it that you have against the LDS church?

    Nothing, the LDS church is a great source of humor, the LDS church is to bloggers what George W. Bush was to late night comedy.

    4. What church is it that you believe Christ is the head of?

    None.

    5. Is the Lord the same yesterday today and forever?

    Not according to LDS leaders. For example, Joseph F. Smith taught “God our Heavenly Father is still progressing…then I repeat that even God our Heavenly Father has not reached the ultimatum of His greatness, His power, or His capacity, but that He is continually increasing and expanding in power…” Conference talk, 1896

    In the LDS publication, The Gosepl Through the Ages, on page 104 it states “Mormon prophets have continuously taught the sublime truth that God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar that through which we are now passing.”

  28. coventryrm said

    I find the blatant lie thing interesting since we mostly just post quotes and articles and for the most part any commentary is either obviously sarcastic or just personal perspective.

  29. Why was that piece of shit “Joe Schmo” not drowned at birth? And,looks like the self proclaimed seer was definitely a flim flam man, who was bopping anything he laid eyes on..He had like 30 wives, but the momo’s dont tell ya that, or that he was tried in court for fortune telling,found guilty…he also printed his own money, and with being a thief, for stealing money from folks by trying to find buried treasure on farmland, ya right!His ass shoulda been hung long before he started being a scam artist..I know exactly what goes on in those stupid temples, and I am telling everyone!!!Looks just like the Masons temples, Isn’t that plagerism? Check it out for yourselves..This is a prime example why bedding down with your cousin is illegal! And so the religious war goes on…

  30. exECMrm said

    Come on Brooke tone it down, you are starting to look like an inverted copy of John. Theres no need to get angry you are just adding instant ear wax to those that revere joseph smith, just like the phrase “you cant give a baby meat, you have to feed them milk” so try not to whack John around the head with a whooping piece of salami and give him some nurturing milk so that he can perhaps reflect on his childhood and remember the barrage of jingles and songs designed to programme kiddies into compliance so that when he’s an adult he may realise that he’s been conditioned and brainwashed i.e.

    “I hope they call me on a mission when I have grown a foot or two…”
    or
    “Saturday is a special day its the day we get ready for suuuunday…”
    or what about this one to teach compliance and reverence
    “… but when we come to the chapel doors shhhhhh be still”

    these are the jingles that came out decades before sesame street or barney, I sit back in awe at the carefully constructed lyrics and tunes that were used to suck me in as a 6 year old.

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